In this episode, I get the opportunity to chat with the wonderful Jonathan Mill. Jonathan graduated from NIDA in 1986 and since then has worked as an actor for many theatre companies and toured nationally and internationally. He has considerable experience working in television, and credits include Home and Away, All Saints, A Country Practice, Water Rats and the Andrew Denton series Blah, Blah, Blah and The Money Or The Gun. I talk with Jonathan about the 'many hats' he has worn during his career as well as his aversion to any food that is orange!
Jonathan graduated from NIDA in 1986 and since then has worked as an actor for many theatre companies and toured nationally and internationally. He has considerable experience working in television, and credits include Home and Away, All Saints, A Country Practice, Water Rats and the Andrew Denton series Blah, Blah, Blah and The Money Or The Gun.
A writer, director and teacher, Jonathan’s work has taken him from tiny Outback schools to the bright lights of Broadway. He is a regular teacher at West Side Actors Studio, Actors Centre Australia, NIDA, Flinders University, ATYP, Brent Street, Sydney Actors Studio and the Centre for Performing Arts.
He has been a member of many boards and advisory committees, including the National Performance Conference, the Griffin Theatre, the National Live Theatre Council of Australia, the National Performers Committee and the Federal Council of MEAA as well as the Equity Diversity Committee. He served four terms as the Federal Vice President of Actors Equity.
https://www.actorscentreaustralia.com.au/staff/tutor/jonathan-mill/
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;26;00
Adam
This episode deals with topics concerning mental health. If you find any of this podcast triggering, please call lifeline on 131114. If you're in Australia or your local mental health provider.
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Adam/Julie
And loved. Hello. Welcome back to episode eight, which is going to be the last one for this season, I think. Oh, that sad. You look very disappointed looking at your face. Well, I can't see my face. I'm actually and sad about it. I want everyone to have a mental image of Julie looking emotionally distraught right now. Okay. Thank you.
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Adam/Julie
And that apology look better than what she's looking like. Maybe. Oh, thanks very much. Thank you. I happens when you've been married to my face sent me. so today we, interviewing Jonathan Mill. Jonathan. Jonathan. Yes. Jonathan. Not to be confused with Jonathan Mills, which I did. I made that mistake once. when someone said they were speaking.
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Aam
And I like Jonathan Mills because I think I just he was just doing some interview on TV. It, so this is Jonathan Mill, the singular Jonathan Mill. Okay. Got it. Just anyone? One of them. Yeah. So I look at his stats on Jonathan. So Jonathan graduated from Nida in 1996 and since then has worked as an actor for many theater companies and toured nationally and internationally.
00;01;50;10 - 00;02;30;04
Adam
He has considerable experience working in television and credits including Home and Away, All Saints, A Country Practice, What a Wretch and the Andrew Denton series blah Blah Blah, and The Money of the gun. A writer, director and teacher, Jonathan. What works have taken him from 20 epic schools to the bright lights of Broadway, he is a regular teacher at West Side Actors Studio, Actors Center Australia nine Flinders University ATP Brant Street, Sydney, Actors Studio, and the center for Performing Arts.
00;02;30;06 - 00;02;58;26
Adam
He has been a member for many boards and advisory committees, including the National Performance Conference, the Gryphon Theater, the National Life Theater Council of Australia, the National Performance Committee, and the Federal Council of NEA, as well as for the Equity Diversity Committee. He served four terms as the federal Vice President of Actors Equity, which is Australia's now. You've worked for Jonathan heavily.
00;02;59;00 - 00;03;40;20
Adam
I have had a great pleasure of working with Jonathan on a couple of productions. So he was the director of maiden Production, that of Singular Productions, which was the company that I formed with a few other artists, and we put on the musical I Love You. You're perfect. Now change. Yes. Yep. And then we did another production which was titled Different Fields, which we managed to adapt, and it was basically an opera musical opera based on Aussie rules football.
00;03;40;23 - 00;04;10;20
Adam
Jonathan loves it. He is absolutely mad. football goes Sydney Swans, as he would say. and during the interview you we mentioned a couple times Footy's just about to do a cabaret show. This was done at the beginning of 2023. We are now at the beginning of 2024, but he's already about to do another, cabaret show, for the Adelaide Fringe.
00;04;10;25 - 00;04;36;17
Adam
And I think he's already currently, performed this new work over in eastern states as well. So he's constantly creating new work as well. So let's have a listen to the lovely Jonathan Mitchell. Stuart, let's hear it. It's here. It.
00;04;36;19 - 00;05;08;27
Adam
Thank you Jonathan. Thank you for for being a part of this project of mine from working on so the working title at the moment is The Suffering Artist. Where do you stand on all that? I'm. No, I haven't suffered. Okay. To just suffer. and I suppose then you we have to define what is suffering. I enjoy the creative process.
00;05;08;29 - 00;05;38;10
Jonathan
I enjoy failing gloriously and starting again and scrapping and going. No, that was wrong. Let's try this and try that. I enjoy that creative process. I don't think it's suffering. the I suppose is, you know, the idea that you have to suffer kind of comes from that image of a starving artist. carrots in a rat infested or cockroach infested, hell hellhole.
00;05;38;14 - 00;06;11;28
Jonathan
And I suppose I've done that. I don't think I'm starving. Yeah, I've had to live in some fairly dodgy places, I suppose. You know, there's there have been moments when I didn't have a lot of money and I didn't have a lot of income. and that's difficult. but that's okay. I, I times when I had lots of money, I had a Harborview in San, you know, I think, you know, it really is champagne one day, be it the next, or maybe not even beer.
00;06;12;00 - 00;06;38;17
Jonathan
you know, water from the tap, but those. Yeah. And I don't think that suffering, I think that's, you know, just life. There's plenty of people who are doing much worse off than I've ever had. so. Yeah. And I don't think that you have to suffer for your art. There is certainly a school in terms of acting.
00;06;38;20 - 00;07;09;02
Jonathan
Lee Strasberg, who was the inventor of the method, and Ivana Chubbuck, who was one of his disciples. They very much believe that you have to have suffered to be able to access emotional truth. And I think that's bullshit. I think it's not an emotion. I think it's dangerous. I think this notion that you have to have suffered some great trauma in your life to be able to act is just rubbish.
00;07;09;04 - 00;07;38;20
Jonathan
we've all suffered trauma, but I don't believe that the stage or the screen or the recording studio is right place to access that. I much prefer Adler and Uta Hagen and their approach to acting, which is observational. I'm playing someone else. I'm not like me. I'm playing a character or, I'm experiencing something that I might have experienced, but other people have experience.
00;07;38;21 - 00;08;03;04
Jonathan
I'm playing someone else. I'm not playing me. I get bored with actors and want to play themselves. Yeah, yeah. yeah, I've seen that performance. what's new? You know, so I like character work. I like, and it's fun. It's fun. I, you know, I'm working with someone at the moment who's, really struggling because she has to play a racist in a play which is avowedly not racist.
00;08;03;04 - 00;08;23;29
Jonathan
Yeah, but she has to put that point of view so that it can be shut down. And, she's finding it unconscious, uncomfortable all. And I said, yeah, but it's funny, isn't it? You know, it's fun to explore that stuff and to go to a place where you don't want to go, where you don't believe because you believe that the end result is important.
00;08;23;29 - 00;08;53;24
Jonathan
You know, I've, I've a couple of times in shows played Nazis. and I can I can still feel I can still see that swastika on my arm. It's like, it's really terrifying. to do. But you have to believe that the final creative product is teaching the audience about the evils of Nazism and race, hate and all of those things, but you've got to fully get into it to make that real.
00;08;53;27 - 00;09;17;17
Adam
Where do you sit in the argument in terms of it's been a lot of coverage in terms of if you haven't experienced that yourself, you shouldn't be playing that as a character. So I know there's been sort of in terms of if you're not gay and play a gay role if you've not. I know that. And there's other examples of that.
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Adam/Jonathan
And particularly with and writers and all sort of forms of arts, there's been a lot of discussion around, what do you what do you sit in that to? I think, I think it's for me, it's about an issue of equity. If, for example, historically Indigenous Australians haven't been portrayed in our stories, and we're now starting to it's, you know, obviously inappropriate that someone who is an indigenous would play an indigenous role.
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Jonathan
however, you know, I think that I have to look back and say, I've spent most of my career playing heterosexual men, which is not my reality. That's not me. But, you know, I'm like, well, if you take a right, 90% of my career, I will have suffered because of their work. But I don't think anyone and no, in fact kind of cares about that.
00;10;12;28 - 00;10;35;22
Unknown
I think that, you know, I've been lucky in my career to play lots and lots of different experiences. I've played women, I've played drag queens. As we're going to talk about in the in my, our cabaret on Sunday, little plug there. Everyone thought there might be light bulb, but it did exist. It was it was still exist.
00;10;35;25 - 00;11;02;04
Jonathan
you know, I played, a pregnant woman. and you have to play that legitimately to for it to make sense. is it done as a parody when you play the, I played a pregnant woman in terms of that's that's training for doctors. Yeah. So you go in and you and to to test the doctors, you go in and give them all symptoms.
00;11;02;06 - 00;11;22;19
Jonathan
and what they actually then need to work out is that I'm not a pregnant woman, but I'm someone identifying as a pregnant woman. Therefore, there might be another issue. Yeah, that needs to be addressed. And you have to play that. You have to play the reality of it. yeah. I think that, as I said, it's about equity.
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Jonathan
If if there is a group that has historically not had access, then I think it's inappropriate to do it. I don't mind, straight people playing game roles. So I'm gonna say could. because plenty of gay people played straight roles. Yeah. And I think that this again gets back to the difference between Lee Strasberg and Stella Adler.
00;11;50;02 - 00;12;12;03
Jonathan
So Lee Strasberg is you only draw on your own experiences that then limits who can do what. Well who's going to play a murderer? I don't want a murderer playing a murderer. I don't want predators anywhere near me. whereas, Stella Rada would say you've observed it. We've all wanted to kill someone, even just for a nanosecond.
00;12;12;06 - 00;12;37;00
Jonathan
That's what you'd been drawn as a murderer. you. Yeah. yeah. So I think for me, it's about who has who has equity, who's got access. Therefore, you make sure that they, have that opportunity to play their own experience, but they should also be able to play other experiences as well. Yeah. Thank you. So that was a side question.
00;12;37;00 - 00;12;58;18
Adam/Jonathan
I was just I was just curious to see your use on it. when did you discover your life was going to be in the arts? Was it really was, when I was four years old at the Drive-In. And I said, that's what I want to do when I grow up. And mom said, what? Be a cowboy?
00;12;58;20 - 00;13;21;11
Jonathan
And I said, no play dress ups. and, you know, yeah, a cab ride, which I have ended up playing on a number of occasions. yeah. That kind of concept that I got when I was very early in my life that you could do it as a job. there were people who do this as a job, and we went to the Drive-In.
00;13;21;11 - 00;13;44;04
Jonathan
But we also went to the theater. We went to our pantomime. I was on top of ten turkeys. And so I was exposed to theater from a very early age, where it was then. Okay, that's possible. That's a job. People get paid to do that. So yeah. And I kind of pretty much focused on that in terms of my education.
00;13;44;06 - 00;14;05;02
Jonathan
to go. Yeah. Okay. How how do you make that happen? And my parents, had known at university or when they're growing up, they knew Dennis Olsen, who was a wonderful, South Australian actor, and he was in the first year at neither. Oh, so he went to neither. So kind of from an early age, I was told.
00;14;05;09 - 00;14;24;14
Jonathan
Oh, yes, if you want to be an actor, you got to neither. you know, which then ended up happening because it was it's a possibility. You kind of go, okay, you know, in, in kind of the same way that if people want to be doctors, that's how to do medicine at university. So you see, okay, that's that's a way to make it happen.
00;14;24;17 - 00;14;46;23
Jonathan
So yeah, I never seriously thought about doing anything else to where did dance come into it with dance. That's great because it was kind of seemed to be no opportunities track, which is what I wanted to do. But there was after school ballet. Yeah. at Stradbroke Primary School. and so, yeah, that was kind of okay.
00;14;46;26 - 00;15;06;02
Jonathan
This is kind of make believe and dress up and and thing. And then the thing about dance, I was thinking about that more ballet and other forms is dance is it's quite structured, a bit like music that there are, there are exams or grades. There are all these things that you can kind of keep progressing to, and you just kind of go on it.
00;15;06;05 - 00;15;29;02
Jonathan
And I always got a scholarship because I was a boy, wasn't any good. I don't know if I said good or not, but, you know, every year it was like, oh yes, an a scholarship. But Jonathan, no. Which kind of keeps you going. Yeah, yeah. How do you think that's with the background of the dance. Has that sort of shaped your view or your approach to performing?
00;15;29;04 - 00;15;55;24
Jonathan
I think it helps enormously in terms of building and developing a character. because you you're thinking about the physicality of the character, where they, where they move from, what access they have. But I also think as a director, it for me helps you in terms of staging and and the way in which a stage is filled with bodies.
00;15;55;26 - 00;16;19;04
Jonathan
so, yeah, I mean, that's something that I'm always kind of aware of is what does what does the picture on a stage look like. And I think that that kind of comes from a dance background as well. knowing you for a few years now, one thing is always impressed me is that there's always something happening with you.
00;16;19;04 - 00;16;42;08
Adam/Jonathan
For what? What drives you? What sort of keeps you coming up with these ideas and motivates you, just like you? Sure you've got something to do? who can I tell my students? You know, they. That was very much my experience. I had been in high school. I went to I went to school for 13 years because I did extra year in America.
00;16;42;10 - 00;17;05;05
Jonathan
Then I came back often to university. Then I was in a dance theater company. Then I was at nine for three years. So literally when I was 26 was the first day when there was no timetable. I was like, what do you mean, what do I do? What rubbish works at 9:00? What the 1030? And so I think it's really important that you create your own timetable.
00;17;05;05 - 00;17;37;05
Jonathan
You create something and you give yourself something to do every day, something creative, every day. if it's reading a poem or reading a book or listening, learning a song, listen to a piece of music and learning, you know, or doing a warm up, or something. Keep yourself, active all the time. And I think I finally reached the point in my career where I don't immediately say yes to just do anything.
00;17;37;08 - 00;18;03;22
Jonathan
so pretty much if if something comes up, you say yes and then you make it happen and what I've found by doing that is things that I never thought would happen pop up. that, you know, I, I very much became a director because someone asked me to direct something, and I did that. And then someone else asked me to direct, and then someone asked me to direct something.
00;18;03;24 - 00;18;24;00
Jonathan
I became a voice teacher and a voice coach because the Melbourne Theater Company of all places, asked me to teach them accents for a particular play, and then they said, okay, the next play is and then the next play, and suddenly you've got this job. So yeah, I think that, the Olympics like that came out of nowhere.
00;18;24;00 - 00;18;45;21
Jonathan
Really. Well, what did you do with it? I, I ended up as the production coordinator of the closing ceremony. So I worked on both the opening and closing ceremonies for the Sydney Olympics. And as I talked about in my show, I didn't apply for it. someone literally rang me up and said, we've got a job for you in the Olympics.
00;18;45;24 - 00;19;06;01
Jonathan
I have the Olympics. That would be great. and then they said, yes. so you're a stand up as the casting director, and I'm like, I was curious as to why they chose me. And they went, we have a cast of 20,000 people, and, you know, everyone I know. Yeah, that's a good start, I suppose. Yeah.
00;19;06;01 - 00;19;27;13
Jonathan
So, yeah, just just saying yes to things and not not second guessing. You start doubting that you can do it. you know just say yes and then not have to do it. Then perhaps you've been asked to do it. Yeah. I mean you know, don't lie about the fact that you got to play the harpsichord if you can't, but if you can play keyboards of some description, go, yeah.
00;19;27;15 - 00;19;48;07
Jonathan
When is it, you know, and that's according to what. Yeah. Because I basically know where the notes are. Yeah. yeah. So I think that yeah, I, I bore easily I do get bored pretty easily. And there's so many things I want to do I haven't done yet. Plots are going to play songs I want to sing or.
00;19;48;10 - 00;20;15;22
Jonathan
Yeah, people I want to work with. there's been a lot of tension around mental health, generally in the community, but there has been some awareness during the Covid, particular during the Covid time amongst artists because they were neglected in amongst, in terms of what would be regarded as a real job or, a long term job.
00;20;15;24 - 00;20;42;03
Adam/Jonathan
And so it became even clearer that the the mental health of a lot of people during that period, some took a took a serious hit. How did you cope during that time? and I guess I, I know some things you did. So. Yeah. Look, I think it's a really it's, it was I was here in Adelaide at the beginning of Covid because I was here for the festival on the fringe and that.
00;20;42;10 - 00;21;05;10
Jonathan
So what I try to do if I'm not, if I'm not performing in the Festival of Fringe, I try and come back and and be an audience member. And that year, 2020, not 29, you know, it's trying to just yeah, yeah. Beginning of 2020, I ended up seeing 38 shows in the Festival Fringe. So I was having a wonderful time and kind of running between shows and, and just having a wonderful time.
00;21;05;10 - 00;21;31;29
Jonathan
And, and then Covid started to creeping into the conversation and I went to a performance of the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra and, there was a new conductor flown in because the conductor who'd come out to work on a piece that had written, I think, had Covid, Amazon hotel, and in quarantine somewhere in Adelaide. And I was like, okay, what's going on here?
00;21;31;29 - 00;21;58;20
Jonathan
And then it just grew and grew and grew. I seemed to grow and grow all around the world. And I remember going to the, botanical gardens on the last day of the festival. I think, and it was the opening, and it was the Mexican fire, in the botanical Gardens. Which one's an extraordinary thing. And there were thousands of people, thousands and thousands of people.
00;21;58;23 - 00;22;22;25
Jonathan
And I remember walking in and, Jane was in our from Adelaide Festival Center was working because everyone was working it such a big event. And to see something human, do you want to work is very, very major. And I would don't I'm tired. I'm exhausted. And she gave me a hug and she said, we'd better do that because I don't know how we will be able to do that for, and I said, yeah.
00;22;22;28 - 00;22;46;12
Jonathan
And then I flew back to Sydney the next day, which was the Monday, and then I was supposed to be working on the Tuesday, and I had a fantastic year booked. Was going to be a great. Yeah. And literally on that Tuesday, the emails, the texts, the phone calls just came one after another. Everything was canceled, everything was shutting down.
00;22;46;14 - 00;23;16;25
Jonathan
And I was supposed to do, suit to voice class on the Wednesday, Wednesday morning. And my first thought was, okay, well, I still want to do that for the people that I'm teaching voice for. How do I do it? And I went, okay, well, I'm going to do a Facebook Live class. I'll do it. I'll do the voice class live on Facebook, because that seemed to be a thing that could be done, with with me having no knowledge that anyone on Facebook could watch that.
00;23;16;27 - 00;23;39;24
Jonathan
so I literally just kind of put up a post for those I'm going to do would be doing voice class work the next morning. First class will be live on Facebook at 9:00, and that then went out to the universe. you know, two weeks later there were 900 people doing voice class on Facebook with me. and so I, I did a remix.
00;23;39;26 - 00;24;05;18
Jonathan
I had something to do, but then I realized how important it was for my own mental health and for everyone else. And what I would do is teach the class. And at the end in the last few minutes, give some updates on what was happening, how people could access Centrelink, whether people would get the money from the government, kind of filtering through from equity and other sources to kind of get that information out to people.
00;24;05;20 - 00;24;38;17
Jonathan
So that kind of helped keep me sane a bit. At the same time, I was kind of freaking out. and I suppose the, the. What upset me the most was the missed opportunities, the fact that I was going to play certain characters which have haven't happened. you know, I was going to do certain things which just went by the wayside financially.
00;24;38;19 - 00;25;05;10
Jonathan
It was a hit, but I was able to by going on Facebook Life. Then I went, oh, a zoom on his zoom and literally worked it out myself. Then taught a class on zoom and out of class people like, can you teach this? Was that? And so then kind of I've been really for the last three years, mainly working online, teaching people, various things.
00;25;05;12 - 00;25;37;05
Jonathan
And despite the fact that, you know, I'm back in the classroom now being face to face stuff, but yeah, it's been, it was tough and I know that lots of people had to make the choice not to be creative anymore, to find some, some other form of income. But I think it was really tough for some people because the, the day jobs working in a cafe auction was that was all gone too.
00;25;37;12 - 00;26;06;08
Jonathan
So how? Yeah, how to manage. I think one of, ultimately my experience is that the biggest driver of mental health issues in our industry is poverty. it's, either the reality of poverty, the perception that it might happen that, you know, I'm not going to have somewhere to live. I'm not going to be able to afford to wait.
00;26;06;10 - 00;26;36;22
Jonathan
I'm not going to be able to, you know, buy clothes. Right? There aren't anybody's things. That seems to be for me, that seems to be a bigger issue, than the, you know, performance anxiety. you know, I never I never really suffered from, you know, if you've rehearsed, if it's, you know, a they've I've, I've had, I've been involved in, in works which I wasn't happy with, because I went on and they weren't ready.
00;26;36;24 - 00;26;58;14
Jonathan
It wasn't a joyful experience. even though some of the audiences seemed to enjoy some of that. But I don't really ever get nervous. I don't have that issue of kind of, you know, stage fright or being nervous because I guess me doing it for so long and also, you know, that's just a bit of it's just dressing up.
00;26;58;17 - 00;27;24;14
Jonathan
It's just a bit of fun. you know, and everything you do, someone is going to think it's the best thing I've ever seen. And someone else is going to hate it. you know, you can't control the way in which people appreciate the art that you produce. So, yeah, I think that's my always been my concern. And even though now, you know, I'm I'm drawing down on my suit, so I'm financially secure.
00;27;24;21 - 00;27;53;13
Jonathan
I'm only I only access the interest. you know, and I've learned I've become financially literate. but I also know that, you know, unrelenting. And I'll probably be renting for most of my life, because even though I could afford to buy something, it's not where I want to move. Yeah, I would be compromising so many other aspects of my life to live in a place that I could afford.
00;27;53;15 - 00;28;03;12
Jonathan
and I'd be spending so much money traveling to where we want to be. So, Yeah. So I think that,
00;28;03;15 - 00;28;25;17
Jonathan
Financial literacy is really important for creative people. And, so making do, you know, you know. Yeah, you, you know, you do eat caviar and drink champagne and have a, have a view when you're working solidly for year after year after year. But you also know that they're going to kind of be times when that doesn't happen.
00;28;25;19 - 00;28;51;24
Jonathan
and, you know, I remember years where I pretty much lived on Vegemite, on toast, three meals a night, got all the nutritional everything growing boy, everything. Yes, I liked the basic class. We used to go. Yeah, we used to go to the, Adelaide Central markets just at closing time and get the food that we're going to sell and make delicious stews and service from it.
00;28;51;27 - 00;29;15;28
Jonathan
You know, I don't think that's suffering. That's just that that's being financially returned and creative and creative and having fun. And everyone, you know now, you suffered a life changing moment with your health. Was this how long ago is that now? It's coming up for seven years. You know, I'd like to talk about I have I have a lot to talk about because.
00;29;15;28 - 00;29;36;25
Jonathan
Yeah. So I was I was on tour, I was in Newcastle in New South Wales, and I woke up about 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning. it's on a bit vague. I had what I felt like an electric shock pressure in my body and the top of my heart, the aorta. So the vein, my heart is fine.
00;29;36;25 - 00;30;06;01
Jonathan
There's nothing wrong with my heart. My cardiologist keeps telling me, but the the artery coming out of the top of the heart burst. Which is not a, not, not a good place to have it. So. And the reality is 90% of people who have that die at that moment and a lot of people because it's not painful, it's not a heart attack actually can't kill the pain because it's a very most people wrong having their back to sleep.
00;30;06;03 - 00;30;32;20
Jonathan
I thought about doing that, but hang on, let's just that was a bit weird. And so I'm sensibly called Tupelo and then began a process of emergency repair of that. And as I was being wheeled into the surgery I was conscious. But you have to sign away. You're literally your life. And then they said you have a 30% chance of survival.
00;30;32;22 - 00;30;41;23
Jonathan
I'm like, what if we don't have the right operation and you'll be dead in ten minutes? Okay, I want a second opinion. You're also ugly because.
00;30;41;26 - 00;31;06;08
Jonathan
And so then I was in a coma for six days I think. And then I, I began the process of recovery. And from the, pretty much the moment I woke up and was conscious, I just did what they told me because I was like, okay, I have to do this at that point I had no concept of ever working again.
00;31;06;09 - 00;31;48;05
Jonathan
And it was literally minute by minute. What do I need to do next? What's the next step? What's the next stage? And, you know, eventually you should kind of get back to it. And then, I was I went back and did some teaching. I think. Probably 6 or 7 weeks after the operation and the I started some really challenging thing was about 18 months, maybe two years after the operation, someone dropped out of a play, someone dropped out of a play, and the director said, we're really desperate, obviously desperate.
00;31;48;07 - 00;32;19;25
Jonathan
Could you, could you come and swim in? We saw her house tomorrow. And I kind of said, yeah, I can probably do it, I can do it. I feel fine now. I can what really challenged me was it was a very physical production, and having started life as a dancer and worked in physical theater and basically had a career where I found over on stage, there's just something about a six foot five, heavyset gentleman falling over that audience and laughing.
00;32;19;27 - 00;32;40;26
Jonathan
And I kind of realize I just ticked off all the shows. I fell over, and that's pretty much what I do. And so looking forward to it in the cabaret. Yeah, I really got married. And so it was really challenging because I was like, I can't do this. I can't actually do what you're asking me to do.
00;32;40;28 - 00;33;02;20
Jonathan
And you know, the better I worked around it and the don't change the audience would never guess. but it was, that was a real shock to me. Then I went okay. And then you kind of got, well, yeah, it's, you have the operation, but then it's also your, Can you still do, you know, could you have done this anyway?
00;33;02;22 - 00;33;31;23
Jonathan
and I guess it's come to a head now because nearly seven years ago when it said when it happened, they went that was an emergency. You know, at some point I have to go back in and repair this properly. and that's what's about to happen. so, I had hoped, in my naivety, would be a keyhole surgery, and it's like, no, no, we're getting this so round, it will be open heart surgery.
00;33;31;25 - 00;33;53;09
Jonathan
and then I got, you know, this is like, a 5% chance that you will need to be, in a wheelchair or dead. and you, you go and they think that's good news. And, you know, I've just had 5% chance for. That's what's going to happen, I suppose, is better than 30%. Survival is 130% survival.
00;33;53;11 - 00;34;12;26
Jonathan
But it's still kind of oh, okay. And that's literally why I'm doing this cabaret. this is, you know, the subtitle of this cabaret is called In Case I Die in April. Here's the show about On the South Side. we're gonna film. And if there is, if I do die and there's a memorial, I'll play it. I've got the podcast.
00;34;13;01 - 00;34;39;18
Jonathan
On the podcast, it's it's there. so I think that. I'm really I, I'm on this anxiety, obviously, because they tell you it's a 5% chance you could die. But the other issue, of course, is I don't know when, I'm, I'm not really sure when they're growing apart for me in Scotland, I like that. I like the concept of that.
00;34;39;18 - 00;35;08;00
Jonathan
On on a on a pig. Yeah. Who knows. It's, I think it's on a, you know, mouse's back on something, you know what I feel like? Yeah. We have to get this big for you from Scotland to Scotland. So I don't know if that's here yet or whatever. So. Yeah. And I think the challenge for me is not the 5% chance that I might die or end up in a wheelchair, it's that it's going to take at least another six months of my life to go on.
00;35;08;02 - 00;35;31;15
Jonathan
Really, because I know that process now. and so I yeah, I've literally just this morning said no to a project, because I, I can't commit to that. Yeah. Yeah. It's that's another missed opportunity. But, you know, but then I'm kind of I had to for one, a job I was applying for a few years ago.
00;35;31;17 - 00;35;58;03
Jonathan
I had to kind of show industry experience, and I stopped listing. So was after 150 productions. So I think that that's enough. you know, I was talking to Tiger Shelton, a couple of weeks ago who retired but has come back and is working in the theater again, I think just said, look, seriously, I don't have 200 plays.
00;35;58;06 - 00;36;24;25
Jonathan
That's enough is natural. yeah. So I think that we get we do get so, concerned and so preoccupied with what's next, that we don't take the time to kind of look back and go, oh, geez, that was a lot, wasn't it? That was fun. And for me, it's I look back on almost everything and I that was so much fun.
00;36;24;27 - 00;36;55;19
Jonathan
How lucky outweigh, You know, how lucky we are to do what we wanted to do. Amazing. Yes. No one else cares about what you've done in the past. But we do, you know, look at your photos, have your memories. You know that that's really important and comforting. You're in a good spot I. Yeah I think so.
00;36;55;21 - 00;37;26;24
Jonathan
I, I think I am, you know I've got over the. Oh I'm grateful every day that I'm alive because that just gets exhausting. you know. Oh yeah. But now I've actually got to do something. I've, I've had a really busy beginning of the year. I did, a cabaret show for World Pride in Sydney, which was a lot of work, and I had to learn a whole lot of new songs.
00;37;26;24 - 00;37;49;14
Jonathan
And, and it was from my script, and I had to learn because it was much more performed than this show on Sunday, which there was, was that great? And by you. That was written by me. Yeah. the end with Jeremy Brennan, who I worked with his musical director and, and, pianist. And, you know, we really worked on that show, and he was great.
00;37;49;14 - 00;38;15;02
Jonathan
And at the same time, I was trying to see everything that was on and support everyone and teach and, you know, living a full, big, full life. And then I went, I think I had to sign for the Adelaide Fringe just for, and it's a very different, very different show. It's very casual. It's just it's literally songs and I've sung so I know all the words.
00;38;15;04 - 00;38;36;19
Jonathan
I don't have to learn them as such. I just have to try to remember them, which is different. And. Yeah, and it's, it is. It's just kind of having a chat with me about, you know, the the journey, the journey over the past 43 years and know she did a you performed a, once a year ago.
00;38;36;22 - 00;39;08;06
Jonathan
Yeah, a year ago. Has how's it evolved since that show? Is it is it the same shows? No. It's entirely new. Yeah. So like so basically I think I've done a trilogy. So there was my Life in Dance, which was kind of 4 to 16 years on. Then. the show I just did for World Pride was My Life in the clowns, which was my year in New York when I was 17, and This Is My Life, an art, very pretentious title.
00;39;08;09 - 00;39;34;28
Jonathan
Stanislavski. But really, it's just a little joke for anyone who kind of knows who Stanislavski is to kind of go, you know, this is the retrospective. This is, you know, my life in the theater. You know, I've had another life in kind of film and television. That's boring, intelligent, boring. You just do it. And then it's, you know, it is a way that all your relatives get thinking.
00;39;35;01 - 00;40;05;17
Jonathan
Oh, we saw you on the telly last night. Just justification. Yes. It's just it is worth it. A person, it's just not fun. It's not theater. It's theater is so much better because when you don't rehearse from times, if you do rehearse and it's kind of a camera check and. Yeah, camera check, and you kind of, I don't know about doing you like some of the biggest things I've done, the biggest emotional scenes I've done in films have is from like a 530 in the morning, actually.
00;40;05;21 - 00;40;22;24
Jonathan
Like, I wasn't even awake. you know, I'm like, no, 10:00 at night. That's when I'm hitting my peak as an actor, you know, like you do this huge emotional scene. There goes, that was brilliant. Breakfast. I was.
00;40;22;26 - 00;40;54;25
Jonathan
so. Yeah. And it's it's. And also you don't sing? No. Well, yeah. Normally there's not much singing in film and television, so you can't do that in a show. yeah. But yeah I think I am, I'm in a good place. I'm literally physically, I had a CBD change, I moved from the suburbs in Sydney, right into the city, on the 14th floor overlooking Oxford Street, overlooking Hyde Park.
00;40;54;28 - 00;41;22;28
Jonathan
And we made friends with the neighbors across the halls and out overlooking the harbor and the fireworks, on New Year's Eve. and it's expensive, but it's affordable through my superannuation. yeah. Or I could have lived 2.5 hours out of Sydney and caught the train in every day, and I was like, I love. I love the fact that just about every theater in Sydney I can walk to, you know, I that's why I love living that.
00;41;22;28 - 00;42;01;05
Jonathan
Like, because it's such a walkable city. I live in turns from I never walk into the city to to work or I walk down to the opera center. Yes, Natalie. Because it's like everything's walkable. I love that I am. You know, I think it it helps you as a performer to prepare by kind of walking and being in your own space, not kind of rushing through traffic and yeah, I think that's kind of my I, you know, believe it or not, I do actually exercise and I really enjoy that.
00;42;01;05 - 00;42;23;08
Jonathan
And that's a really important time for me. I do an exercise bike and some like weights every day. And if I'm working on a show, that's what I'm using that time for. On the exercise bike is to, you know, go over the songs, start with my words, go over that and listen to it, focus on that. And if not, listen to the news.
00;42;23;10 - 00;42;57;06
Jonathan
or if that's too depressing, which, you know, there's some show tunes. yeah. I think exercising, eating well, socializing, getting into nature, all of those things are really important. I don't drive well and I don't have a license and I don't own a car. I think I've ended up being on purpose. I think the reality was I went to New York City, so I went to New York as an exchange student when I was 17.
00;42;57;08 - 00;43;20;24
Jonathan
So when everyone else was getting their license, I was in New York. No one drives, I caught the subway everywhere, or bus. And so then when I came back, I was going straight into Adelaide Uni, and, that didn't last. That's a disaster. Run out, ran around, joined the circus. so I didn't have any money, and I was just riding my bike everywhere.
00;43;20;26 - 00;43;49;24
Jonathan
and then kind of went, I don't really need a car. And then I moved to Sydney to to go to acting school and really afford one and yeah, I've never when I moved back to Adelaide I did try to learn and I got my learner's permit and then they had just brought in the law that you had to spend 50 hours in a car with your parents.
00;43;49;26 - 00;44;13;08
Jonathan
My parents lived in Clapham and had no interest in teaching me to drive. So I was just like, that's ridiculous. That just doesn't work. And the whole I think because it had just come in, the whole administration of that kind of was because I meant, well, I, you know, I'm 40 years old. I spent 20 years, I'm going to take me out for a drive.
00;44;13;10 - 00;44;36;18
Jonathan
And I went, oh, we don't we don't know what to do. So that just lapsed. but I and I don't miss it. Yeah. But I also think it does give you time to catch public transport and observe. I know every character you're ever going to play is on a bus or train. you know even, even even emperors and kings and queens.
00;44;36;20 - 00;45;06;29
Jonathan
Are on the bus somewhere. and it gives you time to, to focus your self creatively. people probably think I am insane when I'm writing a song or going over lines on the bus, but you know, if you're singing out loud, not all the time. I was thinking out loud on the plane yesterday because I had my headphones and going, okay, itsy bitsy, teeny weeny, and I forgot the caning.
00;45;07;02 - 00;45;12;04
Jonathan
and then I think I'm singing out loud.
00;45;12;07 - 00;45;42;11
Adam/Jonathan
So what would you like to achieve now? What's what would be on your bucket list if you sort of got on? I would love to do that. I've been to 40 countries in the world. I'd like to get to 50. like to get to 50 countries. it's also, I think you also have to like, I would like to go to the Brisbane Olympics and spend a day at the Athletics, but not have to coordinator not I have to cool.
00;45;42;12 - 00;46;07;25
Jonathan
You know, I don't that nearly killed me the first time. But you know there were there are ten of us in the core ceremonies group right from the beginning. Eight of the people involved, eight of that ten were hospitalized either before, during or immediately after the Olympics for stress related disorders. I just started bleeding from my nose and then.
00;46;07;26 - 00;46;33;29
Jonathan
Yeah, we're just going to take your blood pressure was 210 over 90, and they're like, everyone move away. Don't make any noise. I won't pump him. It was. Yeah. Pretty. stressful. and I remember David Atkins, who was the artistic director, remember him being interviewed, and he said, we we're, like, nervous about what the world would think.
00;46;34;01 - 00;46;57;14
Jonathan
He said, no, we don't give it. We didn't care about them. And we're just terrified of what Australians are going to think. and but most people seem to enjoy it, so that's good for like a few. We're kind of aware of that. but, you know, it's it's it's it is stupid when you're, when, you know, the concept of representing a country culturally, you know.
00;46;57;14 - 00;47;19;00
Jonathan
And how do you do that with a hostile government. And we were really lucky that we, you know, everyone involved hated John Howard. So that kind of became the driving force for what we were doing, what we were doing, the opening and closing ceremony, what's really going to make John Howard squirm like, oh my, let's go with that one.
00;47;19;03 - 00;47;44;10
Jonathan
So yeah, my job basically was to follow, David Atkins around with a notepad. And every time he had an idea, write it down and kind of go, how do you do that? How do you make that happen? So 12 John Cupid dance. Okay. And 1000 ballroom dancers. Okay. I make that happen somehow.
00;47;44;13 - 00;48;07;11
Adam
So we've reached the spot now. This one's an interesting one. I pick this one. Do you have anyone you go to for advice?
00;48;07;13 - 00;48;34;15
Jonathan
Adam Cook probably. Yeah. Although he's normally asking me for advice. Adam Cook. Yeah I think Adam Cook who was artistic director of strictly the company for eight years. and I've worked with a lot and live with and still work with, I think that we work so well together because we seem to have exactly the same taste.
00;48;34;18 - 00;48;58;14
Jonathan
I'll ask, how was that? Whenever you went and saw last night, he goes, well, I don't need to tell you because you know, you will have had exactly the same reaction. it's exactly the same response. And that's I think, I think it's amazing actually says, you know, don't listen to anyone except 3 or 4 people that you continually go back to and trust.
00;48;58;16 - 00;49;28;11
Jonathan
So, yeah, I think, Lynn Pierce is another person that I work with, and she's currently Australia's premier improvization session teacher, which I think is really important. I think improvising is really important. and I, I just trust her and trust your judgment. And she's someone who's been watching, who has seen not everything, but she's been watching me perform for 43 years.
00;49;28;14 - 00;50;08;04
Jonathan
so she goes right back to the beginning of Energy Connection. Carl Edwards. Dean Carey. So people that were around then. So, you know, I think that's the people that have longevity over your career. If it's career advice. my sister who's house for now, we kind of each other's support. I think that's really important as well that you have, you know, people in your life that can help you with issues, you know, good night mates that you work with.
00;50;08;06 - 00;50;38;25
Jonathan
And it's more than just kind of a show friendship, something quick. So many, many good friend of mine, Kate Hood, who's had, a major change in her life. She was, she's now a wheelchair performer, and she wasn't originally. So she's had a major life change. And people with those sorts of experiences, I think are really useful to check in with and try to go.
00;50;38;28 - 00;51;07;10
Adam/Jonathan
Okay, what's going on? How are you? What's happening? New. You've got an energy connection. Oh, yes. So there you go, listeners. We've got we've made a connection because yes, we go. Oh yes, that's absolutely, one one. So were you one of the founding members? I was one of the founding members of Energy Connects. Oh, wow. D actually, well, that's not completely true.
00;51;07;13 - 00;51;37;12
Jonathan
I was in New York when Gayle kind of came up with the idea and got the first group together. and I wasn't in there. I was a founding member, but I wasn't in the original first production. because I had just come back from New York, but I was I worked on a technical, so I was a technical, support person on that, but I was part of the company, and then I was in most of the shows, but sometimes we would change around as well.
00;51;37;15 - 00;52;02;28
Jonathan
Not everyone would perform, and every show there would be other roles to take on. So and I think that that's a really useful thing that you learn theater, you don't just learn performing. Not just singing or acting, but theater. You learn how to put it on and go. Was a fantastic teacher in that way that she taught to theater.
00;52;03;01 - 00;52;13;05
Adam
What's your favorite word. One of your favorite words. Somebody.
00;52;13;07 - 00;52;36;12
Jonathan
Like us you have to swear. You can swear. Yeah. Cunt probably comes as my favorite word because it's so offensive and it upsets people so much. and talking about Kate who had Kate hurt is a wonderful voiceover artist. And, she was used to be the voice of the ABC coming up next on Seventh Avenue. And when she's driving, she calls.
00;52;36;12 - 00;53;11;27
Jonathan
Everyone comes pissed. Voice cunt. In this ABC voice, the best ABC voice. Who is your hero? one of your heroes. I always say that the person that I admire most as a performer is Robert Preston. Oh, yes. I always wanted to have Robert Preston's career. So. Music man, the music man. I think there, because he was, he he, you know, he was a film star.
00;53;11;27 - 00;53;47;04
Jonathan
He was a big star in the in the 40s and 50s on film. And he worked in, in theater and musicals. And he was a great actor. And, just seemed like a really nice person. And. Yeah. So I look up to, I suppose, you know, and Ron, my, the, you know, the people I'm not having met, but I'm learning met them through books like Stan Ratner and you, Haggard and Stanislavski, you know, the, the the the teachers, the scientists, the people who wrote it all down and went, oh, this is how you do it.
00;53;47;06 - 00;54;10;00
Adam/Jonathan
Are you still learning who you are? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I think you have to. I think that you, you have to, keep learning all the time. you know, I've, I've learned. I've learned something recently as a teacher.
00;54;10;02 - 00;54;37;12
Jonathan
That I do need to be more patient as a teacher. because I get bored. Not for the teacher, not over the student. Got bored with going, you know, I'm going to teach something else, and you have to go back and teach the fundamentals. The fundamentals are so important. So yeah, I think, I'm, I'm, I'm wondering I'm not learning.
00;54;37;12 - 00;55;06;04
Jonathan
I'm wondering how resilient I am because I've always been incredibly resilient and kind of, I faced everything with too much bravado and and too much courage. And now I'm like, I really do. I shouldn't I just be, like, sitting in for eating and having a cup of tea? that's for. Yeah. Which is. And it's boring.
00;55;06;10 - 00;55;33;17
Jonathan
I try to people go on holidays and sit by the pool. I'm like, what? I'm exhausted when I go on holidays and I'm doing 70 tours. you know what? What's next? What's next? yeah, I don't I'm not good at relaxing. I'm actually not good at relaxing. So even things that people think are relaxing, like watching sport, it is not a relaxing experience for me.
00;55;33;19 - 00;56;11;14
Jonathan
It's full of, okay, I'm not very relaxing because I, I'm, I'm only interested in things that excite me and challenge me. and get my blood pressure high. But it's just not a good thing for you. And I have to bring in blood pressure down, being inside about things right here. Love. Interesting things and and exciting. So what's what would you say is one of the weirdest things about you from another other people's perspectives.
00;56;11;16 - 00;56;43;07
Jonathan
I think one of the weirdest things about me is. What I don't eat. The list is really quite ridiculous. yeah. So I don't eat orange food. Okay. Fashion. It's the, It's the fibers. I don't like the fibers. are you aware of the fibers? Yes, I like the texture of it. If you were blindfolded, would you know it?
00;56;43;07 - 00;57;17;28
Jonathan
Yeah. Oh, it's the texture. Because parsnip is in that category, even though it's technically not orange. I don't like condiments. I don't like tomato sauce or mayonnaise or hollandaise sauce or anything like that. I like fried eggs. Okay, that's that's I like beyond that, it's. I don't like condiments. Oh, I hate vinegar. I have been known to throw a salad on the floor because it had dressing, even though it was the request was no dressing.
00;57;18;01 - 00;57;43;29
Jonathan
yeah. Not a food thing. I know, it's like. Exactly. And this is it was an RSL club, a nice atmosphere that's about food on the plate. Anyway. And undress. I have my salads undressed. Yeah. That's. Yeah. I think that one kind of sucks people because they're like, what? Oh, yeah. Condiments. Condiments. Very. This is from childhood. This stems back from childhood.
00;57;43;29 - 00;58;10;24
Jonathan
Oh. no, I don't know. I think that I'm pretty vinegar. No, I well, one of the biggest issues is my parents made everything. Yeah. Everything was homemade. So we never we would call sauce bought sauce. Okay. And that's what I could never eat. Bought sauce because it wasn't, you know, it wasn't. Right. but I never like mayonnaise that made its own mayonnaise.
00;58;10;27 - 00;58;38;11
Jonathan
It's disgusting. so I think that is part of it is is kind of coming from because my mom, my dad grew up in housing trust, and mum grew up in a tent, literally during the depression. It was a tent made out of Hessian bags, whitewashed. So they had to make for. And you know there was no concept of buying things so we were screwed things or made them.
00;58;38;14 - 00;59;06;28
Jonathan
So I've always been a bit wary of things from shops. So what about dessert. I mean did you just like to draw a line like with chocolate sauce and stuff like that. Well yeah, because now I'm diabetic, so I don't go to dessert. But in, oh, I like cheese and crackers. Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, I don't know what would make up a person who doesn't like condiments, but the amount I wouldn't think you're an anti condiment type person, but that's a so if I was to.
00;59;07;00 - 00;59;30;11
Adam
Jonathan, thank you so much for your time and sharing a bit of yourself, my weirdness, your weirdness, your antic fundamentalist. I thank you. Thank you.
00;59;30;13 - 01;00;08;24
Adam
And there you go. What a creative man. Exceptionally and a very, Chilled way of sort of looking at things. Very pragmatic, I think. Very pragmatic. Yeah, but he's, always got lots of ideas and different aspects he can go into. And, you know, that's really admirable. And I find having worked with him as well, that he just sort of calls it how it is, which is quite refreshing in its own age.
01;00;08;27 - 01;00;38;15
Adam
so thank you. Thank you all very much for listening. That is the end. Now, whether that is the end, full stop. That's it, I don't know. Let's see. We'll see. Oh, I mean, this was really done to keep myself occupied and busy and, but gave me the opportunity to talk to some lovely people who some of them I may not have really had much, you know, an opportunity to really talk to.
01;00;38;15 - 01;01;03;28
Adam
So it was great to catch up with these really interesting and get insights from them and just get a little bit of perspective on my life as well. So if anything, it's been good for me. So some if there's only been three listeners, myself, Julie and maybe mum, it hasn't been a total loss, but they've been lovely.
01;01;03;28 - 01;01;26;04
Adam
If there was other people who can take some stuff away from listening to these interviews and maybe have enjoyed it, and maybe if you think you would like to be interviewed, you can contact Adam. True. Oh, yes. Well, I've, I've got I mean, if we went down the track of doing another season, I've got a couple of ideas for people who I'd be interested in talking to.
01;01;26;07 - 01;01;55;20
Adam
But yeah. you've got stories of, experiences and things you'd like to share. I'm learning as I go, as as you probably hear that. and with the interviews, I think I started to feel a little bit more comfortable getting into it. I've still got a lot to learn regarding sound engineering, so if there's anyone out there who sort of goes, Adam, I'll help you out with that and give you, you know, we can do all the recording for you.
01;01;55;22 - 01;02;29;21
Adam
I'll be very happy with that, too, because I've just kind of been doing a lot of guesstimates and doing it all myself. It's been all done. I'm sure it's all fine. Adam, and thanks for listening, everybody. Much appreciate it. Go. Well, everyone look after yourselves. See you soon. Bye bye.