In this episode, I get the opportunity to chat with George Torbay. George is the Head of Music Theatre, Elder Conservatorium of Music at University of Adelaide and was named in the King's Birthday 2023 Honours List with an Order of Australia, receiving an AM "for significant service to the performing arts through music.” I talk with George about nuturing the next generation of performers as well as the pyjamas he prefers to wear!
Hailed by The Sydney Morning Herald as “one of Australia's leading musical lights,” George Torbay completed studies at the New England Conservatory of Music in Boston, Massachusetts USA, the University of Sydney and the Queensland Conservatorium of Music.
He is currently Head of Music Theatre at the Elder Conservatorium of Music, University of Adelaide.
As a director he has considerable credits both in plays as well as musicals and opera. He directed the Sydney production of Chess: The Musical;
Blood Brothers and David Williamson’s Up for Grabs at the Zenith Theatre; The Norman Conquests and The Woman in Black at Sydney’s Genesian Theatre. Musicals include Urinetown and Spring Awakening in Singapore, Titanic – the Musical, The Hatpin, Godspell, Jesus Christ Superstar as well as music director for Les Misérables. George is also an accomplished opera director and has directed La Bohéme, La Traviata, Susannah and The Marriage of Figaro for Opera New England. Most recently, he directed Spring Awakening for ECMT at the Adelaide Festival Centre.
From 1997 – 2008 he was the Chief Conductor for NSW Department of Education & Training and was artistic director of the Sydney Opera House Concert Series. In 2000 he arranged, conducted and recorded the National Anthem for the Closing Ceremony of the Olympics with the Sydney Symphony Orchestra and was also the vocal coach for the Opening Ceremony. He was the Choral Director of the Schools Spectacular from 1998-2007. In 2008, he was the Director of Music and Judge on Channel 7’s Battle of the Choirs.
George is the author of the first national syllabus in musical theatre for the Australian Music Examinations Board and currently serves as their advisor and Chief Examiner. He is a published arranger with Hal Leonard Australia and has also released a singing series for schools entitled ChoralTime!
PODCAST GOOFS
I incorrectly infer that the opera 'Susannah' was written/composed by George Floyd; it was written by Carlisle Floyd.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;22;25
Adam
This episode deals with topics concerning mental health. If you find any of this podcast triggering, please call lifeline on 131114. If you're in Australia or your local mental health provider.
00;00;22;27 - 00;01;09;23
Adam
Hello. Hi. Welcome. So today's guest is George today. Okay. Okay. Yeah. so I decided I thought would be a good idea to talk to him because George is currently the head of, the music theater course here at Adelaide University. Yes. And I was just interested in talking to someone who is working with up and coming artists, and what with any sort of preparations, and they go for it in terms of preparing them for the big, wide, unknown world of the industry.
00;01;09;26 - 00;01;41;26
Adam
Absolutely. So just to start off listeners with a bit of a few steps on Mr. Torbay. So hailed by the Sydney Morning Herald as one of Australia's leading musical lights, George Torbay completed studies at the New England Conservatory of Music in Boston, Massachusetts, in USA, Massachusetts. So it's no joke. The University of Sydney and the Queensland Conservatorium of Music.
00;01;41;28 - 00;02;10;24
Adam
He is currently Head of Music Theater at the Older Conservatorium of Music, the University of Adelaide and director, whose considerable credits both in plays as well as musicals and opera. He directed the Sydney production of chess, the musical Blood Brothers. And David Williams, who's up for grabs at the Zenith Theater, The Norman Conquest and The Woman in Black at the Sydney's Gymnasium Theater.
00;02;10;26 - 00;03;01;08
Adam
Musicals include Urinetown, Good Musical and Spring Awakening Very Good Musical in Singapore. Titanic the Musical, The Hat Pin, Godspell, Jesus Christ Superstar, as well as music director for Lane, Miserable. So it's got quite a lot of hats in the sort of music theater world. George is also an accomplished opera director and has directed Lebo M, La traviata, Susannah, George Floyd and The Marriage of Figaro for Opera New England, Spring Awakening and You're in Town for CMT at the Adelaide Festival Center, and most recently directed the Australian premiere of The Joey Contreras musical In Pieces in 1997 to 2008.
00;03;01;09 - 00;03;30;17
Adam
He was chief conductor of the New South Wales Department of Education and Training, and was artistic director of the Sydney Opera House Concert Series. In 2000, he arranged, conducted and recorded the national anthem for the closing ceremony of the Olympics with the Sydney Symphony Orchestra, and was also the vocal coach for the opening ceremony. He was the choral director of the school's spectacular from 2019 98 to 2007.
00;03;30;19 - 00;03;53;19
Adam
In 2008, he was the Director of Music and Church on Channel Seven's Battle of the clients at an even though there was a TV show, of course. George is the author of the first National Syllabus in Musical Theater for the Australian Music Examination Board, and currently serves as her advisor and chief examiner. He is a. He has a.
00;03;53;21 - 00;04;22;25
Adam
He is a published arranger with Helen into Australia, and has also released a singing series for schools entitled Choral Time or Choral Time. In 2023, George was named in the King's Birthday Honors with an Order of Australia. So he's in a way, wow. Oh. That's royalty. Okay. So. Royalty. Royalty. So I have to bow before you. Oh.
00;04;23;00 - 00;04;41;05
Juliw
Did you. Okay. All right. Well, I'll be really interested to see what is to say, because, it's challenging preparing people for this creative industry. So let's hear it from him. Let's go now. Bye.
00;04;41;07 - 00;05;07;12
Adam
Welcome, George. And thank you so much for joining me, albeit in darkness and in your pajamas. so I had to get that in there. and I'm having, Can you can you give us sort of a description of, how you're looking at, is it are we talking flowers here or. no, no, no, we're talking no, no we're talking.
00;05;07;14 - 00;05;30;09
George
You're not going to believe this, but, eight years ago, I was given this pair of Winnie the Pooh. I think they might be Peter Alexander pajamas. And they got Winnie the Pooh on them. And, so there's a there's a vivid image for the listeners. There you go, folks. My only Winnie the Pooh references. I've got a I got a Winnie the Pooh tie.
00;05;30;11 - 00;05;53;10
Adam
And I take great pleasure telling students I've got poo on my tie. And and and while I get blank faces, I sort of varieties of blank faces or shocked faces and, and people I, I get a laugh out of that every time so never fails to entertain me. And I think that's the best form of entertaining and entertaining when I'm sure no one cares what I'm wearing.
00;05;53;10 - 00;06;31;28
George
But, it was a very long day, and as soon as I walked in the door, I disrobed and here I am. Well, that's, that is healthy. That is good. Healthy. And which is which? Which. Speaking of Segways, which ties in beautifully into so what I'm working on this podcast is talking to creators, artists about mental health in the industry and the working title at the moment is is sort of suffer for your Art, which is, an old sort of attitude amongst many people.
00;06;31;28 - 00;07;00;14
Adam
And I suppose just, opening to you, do you think artists should suffer for their art? Well, I think you probably need to. I mean, I guess I need to ask a rhetorical question of what to suffer mean because I think that, I think that's the question. If we're talking suffer means, you know, you go through incredible emotional and psychological pain and angst in order to realize a role.
00;07;00;21 - 00;07;37;15
George
Then, of course, that's crazy. No one, no one's going to advocate you that you do that. But if you're talking about, you know, suffering in terms of the daily grind of hard work and persistence and failing, but getting up and trying again and, refusing to give up and those kinds of, things, then I absolutely, think that, every artist needs to be working towards that kind of, discipline, you know, nothing.
00;07;37;17 - 00;07;57;13
George
for most of us comes straight away. We all fail. And, something we try. I think on the very first day with my students, I say to them that. So every day that they succeed in their degree, they're going to have a day that's going to be absolutely horrible. And they're going to walk into one class and, you know, it's all going to work.
00;07;57;13 - 00;08;17;08
George
And then they're going to walk into another class and it's not going to work. The the real test is not how many times you fail, but rather what do you do after that? And how do you get up and how do you, push on and what do you learn? And, I think those are the things that mean the most.
00;08;17;08 - 00;08;48;21
George
So suffering in terms of working hard. Sure. But life is short and nobody wants to, go through pain and angst in order to realize a role. I think that, you know, I never, ever did that as a performer. that's because I was a stunning actor. No, no, no, I never did that. I look, I worked hard, and I, I absolutely believe in, in hard work and I believe in, persistence and I believe in resilience.
00;08;48;23 - 00;09;27;03
George
so I just absolutely want to try to instill in my students in a, in the bigger picture with the community. Do you feel there is a perception that, creative people can create things regardless? You know, on on a smell of an oily rag, as the old saying goes, and, and therefore and things like funding or as we've recently experienced in terms of artists out of work during the Covid pandemic, being kind of left out in terms of support is do you feel there's a, a perception that the artists will just make do with whatever they're given?
00;09;27;03 - 00;09;53;08
George
So why fund why give them money? Well, we I guess we, you know, as a community, we still see art as extra, as an a, you know, something you add on and, and even at the school level and like you, I mean, I have my, you know, beginnings of my career was in schools and, you know, was always my program at the mercy of, you know, the first head on the chopping block.
00;09;53;11 - 00;10;16;13
George
If they were cuts announced. And I have to say that even when I was designing the music theater course, for, University of Adelaide, I was extremely conscious of creating a program that would be financially resilient, in the face of challenges. And this was pre-COVID. This was no one no one could have foresaw that. That's what was on the horizon.
00;10;16;13 - 00;10;46;13
George
And but even even when I was designing the course, I kept thinking, how can I make the course, financially resilient so that we weren't going to be the first head on the chopping block should some difficulty arise. And sure enough, within 18 months of starting the course, you know, this enormous challenge comes along and I have to say and proudly say that we withstood, those financial pressures and demands incredibly well.
00;10;46;16 - 00;11;10;15
George
So I'm very, very proud of that. But and I would say to anybody who's listening that that's really the goal. I think we always look towards other people to to fix it for us. And the the onus is on us, you know, we're the artists to make it financially resilient and viable, whatever it is that you're doing. And sure, believe me, I've done theater on nothing and I absolutely know what it's like.
00;11;10;15 - 00;11;32;22
George
And at the tertiary level, we're expected to put on, you know, high class shows and on virtually nothing. And so you're constantly working terribly hard to, to, to make the very best, of, of what, you know, you're being given. but I think that's the challenge. The challenge is, yes, be the very best that you possibly can.
00;11;32;22 - 00;12;00;18
George
But it goes further. Stop complaining and figure out a way that you can make your what you what you do more resilient and vibrant. And if that means getting out there knocking on doors and we all do it, knocking on doors and raising money and doing all of that, then that's something that you have to do. But for me, my process here, for Adelaide and for South Australia, was to create a program that wouldn't be at the mercy of the bean counters.
00;12;00;21 - 00;12;30;04
Adam
You've covered quite a lot of this already, but what qualities do you think an artist needs to make it in this industry, in this modern day times? I, I know I've already mentioned I tried my hardest to make my students as resilient as I possibly can to get them to understand that, the one thing that we're not training them to do is to be a performer exclusively, because there is no such thing.
00;12;30;06 - 00;12;55;20
George
There isn't anybody out there who is only a performer. A Audra McDonald still does masterclasses. You know, all of us do other things. We teach, we do marketing. We can, do arts administration, we manage theaters. We, you know, we're doctors, we're nurses, we're teachers. We have whatever. and lots of the people that I work with all do other things.
00;12;55;20 - 00;13;18;03
George
All my staff do other things, work in other places. and I, we try from day one to say to our students, and lots of us students come with other degrees. That's very true. We have lawyers and physiotherapists and all sorts of things who are now doing, you know, a second degree. That's great. We love that. We love them to come with another skill set.
00;13;18;05 - 00;13;42;03
George
and, and that's not to say to fall back on, but to, to add value to their life and, and to their earning capability. No one likes to be poor. So I want my students to, have everything that they want. but I want them to understand that being a performer 100% of your time is, no one that's that's for no one.
00;13;42;04 - 00;14;09;28
George
So, you know, life is made up of other things. And plus, I don't think you'd be happy doing that anyway. I've been happy. Yes, I was a performer, but I've been happy doing a whole range of things with my life, with I, which I thoroughly enjoyed. So I think, you know, doing that, but also being resilient, you know, learning to roll with whatever comes your way, the good bits and the bad bits, but getting up out of the dirt and figuring out how you're going to move on.
00;14;09;28 - 00;14;48;07
George
I think that quality is incredibly important. And I mean, I should just say, when you asked that question, I was remembering, a friend of mine, his name is Nancy Anderson. She's she's on, Broadway at the moment in a musical called 1776. They're doing an all female version of 1776. And, she's playing Thomas Jefferson, in that and, I think they went to Chicago or somewhere at the moment, but, she, I, we went to university together, and I remember, I was already performing, and, we finished her degree, and she was really struggling to find work.
00;14;48;10 - 00;15;11;16
George
You know, I pretty much consider her one of my very best friends, and I, but, you know, I would see her quite a bit. And every time I saw her, she was looking for us, you know, and, not working and, you know, auditioning a couple of times every single day and not getting any bites, incredibly frustrated.
00;15;11;17 - 00;15;27;14
George
I was so worried about her at one point that I took her out for a brunch because I was so worried that she was starving to death. I took her out for a brunch, and at this brunch I said to her, Nancy, surely you know you've been you've been doing this, auditioning every day for 12 months and nothing.
00;15;27;17 - 00;15;47;20
George
Surely there comes a point where you've got to say, you know, this isn't working, and go and sell shoes or, you know, do something where you can earn a bit of money. And she listened to me, and I was I was genuinely I mean, I was honest, I really felt that way. So I just felt that she'd, you know, pushed it too far for too long.
00;15;47;23 - 00;16;08;17
George
And she looked me in the eye and said to me, I am never giving up. I refuse to give up. This is what I am meant to do. And within ten years I went back to New York and and I watched her, in her first Broadway show, and she's done several since she was in Sunset Boulevard and now and, a bunch of other shows.
00;16;08;17 - 00;16;33;06
George
So she's doing incredibly well. She's done TV and all sorts of things since then. But that quality of being incredibly resilient against all the odds, believing in yourself, and believing in what you have to offer and being totally focused on that is a quality a few of us have. And I think that you need that to really survive.
00;16;33;09 - 00;16;56;11
George
And do you find with the students coming in that they they get it, they understand that or that or they sort of stars in their eyes? I'm going to do this course, and then I'll go out and go to Sydney and, and just and just stop and the offers will come rolling in. yeah. What's, what's, what's the vibe amongst the young people today in terms of, doing a music theater course?
00;16;56;14 - 00;17;23;19
George
I don't I don't want to be that old dude that says, you know, you know, this generation, that look, in the nicest possible way, if I can say that the the generation that I'm teaching now is entitled, they are entitled because mum and dad have absolutely said to them, you can have the world and you deserve the world because you're so wonderful, you deserve the world.
00;17;23;19 - 00;17;56;22
George
And I genuinely have singers and, and I've auditioned thousands and thousands of singers. I did the auditions for that opening and closing ceremonies at the Olympic Games, so that the 7500 people who who performed in some capacity during the games, I got to see every single one of them. And, and I remember touring around and just seeing, you know, every three minutes another person walked through the door and, you know, so many people couldn't sing and, or do anything.
00;17;56;22 - 00;18;16;21
George
And they look at you in disbelief when you, you say, look, there's there's just nothing. There's no voice there. But my parents tell me that I'm fantastic. And grandma says that, since grandma says that I'm the best singer that she's ever heard. Well, grandma was supposed to say that. And Mum and dad are supposed to say that.
00;18;16;21 - 00;18;35;23
George
But it's left to people like me that have to turn around and say, you know, it's not the truth. the, there's no voice there. I think the current generation is entitled, but I think that, we've created them that way. But there's that's a double edged sword. They're entitled. But I also believe. Right. And this is a good thing.
00;18;36;00 - 00;19;12;27
George
They believe that they can do anything. And I think that that's not a bad thing. How do you go if you have a, a room full of 30 students? I'll use the word students who think they're the ones. And you're you're you've got the job to say when you say casting, a show for, presentation. Only a couple of you are going to be playing the leads and and some of you be ensembles, some you'd be playing minor supporting roles and so on.
00;19;13;00 - 00;19;31;09
Adam
how do you manage in terms of the, I suppose the outside mental health of, of those who are sort of having to sort of make that adjustment, that they're not going to get everything in the world that they've been told that they might. They deserve that there'll be times and all of these letdowns and so on.
00;19;31;16 - 00;20;03;14
George
How do you manage that? And I think, well, look, I guess even from the very first week, in some rap class, which is one of the more challenging classes that the students do that sometimes, quite often I take, but other people take this class as well, and it is a fairly brutal, weekly experience of standing up in front of your colleagues and performing, repertoire within certain parameters, fairly strict parameters, either dates or composers or whatever.
00;20;03;17 - 00;20;20;23
George
And you've only you've usually only just learned to quickly and you know, and you're suddenly up on your feet in front of your colleagues and you have to present that repertoire. We I think from the very first day, we make it clear to them that not every single thing that they they're going to do, they're going to be right for.
00;20;20;25 - 00;20;43;17
George
But that's not the goal. The goal is to stretch yourself as much as you possibly can, and to see and to experience and to see what you possibly can do. And sure, using myself as an example of my own singing voice was definitely more legit in quality. I really wanted to be an opera singer growing up. That's that was sort of what I wanted to do.
00;20;43;20 - 00;21;16;18
George
And so, you know, am I going to do a big rock show? Will no, I'm not I'm never going to get cast and was never going to get cast in a big rock show. And I think that right from the very word go, we, we, we do make it clear to the students what we think the what their capabilities are, but we also make it clear to them that the point of the degree is to be pushed and to be encouraged to explore a whole range of activities, some of which you'll be fantastic and some of which won't work in your voice.
00;21;16;21 - 00;21;38;15
George
But that's not the point. The point is to, explore, try, see what's possible and go from there. And and by the time they're in third year, they do kind of get the idea. But do they get disappointed? Sure, they get disappointed. But we also don't buy into which we really don't spend a lot of time buying into that.
00;21;38;16 - 00;22;04;02
George
They disappointment. They're allowed to be disappointed, but they've also got to get on and and get going and complete the task at hand. So we don't really buy into it that much. We expect them to be professional and to get on with the task. Is it competitive in terms of, but I think there's always a level of competition which which can be healthy, but, yeah.
00;22;04;04 - 00;22;27;09
George
Does it sort of cross that line? Does it do you find that much in the university? Like I think they are very competitive because these students are hungry and they're and it was, first of all, that was competitive to get into the degree hundreds audition every year and we take 24. so even just to get there is incredibly challenging.
00;22;27;12 - 00;22;53;11
George
so yes, they're competitive. They want these three years to be loaded with as many rich experiences as they possibly can get. but we try to make the entire experience rich. So, you know, getting to work with a range of directors, professional directors from the outside, no matter what role they're in, those are the sorts of experiences that we try to place a great deal of value on.
00;22;53;11 - 00;23;16;10
George
Rather then you're going to play that role. I mean, we select the best person for the role. We it's not an equity system, but we genuinely try to spread the love around as much as we possibly can. But that's the first priority is we pick the best person for the role. We try our hardest to replicate what the world is like.
00;23;16;13 - 00;23;37;01
George
and we can't do that. Realistically. We can. We can only suggest that because we're small tool. We're selecting from a group of 2024 students for a show. And out in the world they'd be, you know, many, many more, people than that. But we we try to replicate the real world as much as we possibly can. in that process.
00;23;37;03 - 00;24;02;18
George
But we try to get them to look at the entire experience, the working with their colleagues and working with, a director, usually somebody absolutely fantastic. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity. And I think that they genuinely see that, yes, they get disappointed. But, you know, and we want them to, to, you know, to strive to, get the role that they want and to audition the best that they can.
00;24;02;18 - 00;24;26;29
George
But I think they understand that, it's a competitive process. They try their best. If it doesn't happen, then it's time to pick yourself up, get on and get on with the task. I know that sounds cold and heartless, but I, I think that, what purpose is served by me saying to a student, oh, you were you were really the best, you know, everybody else was.
00;24;27;01 - 00;24;49;21
George
But you were really the best. There's no purpose in that, for I believe in telling my students the truth. I don't believe in lying to them. That's not to say that, you know, I'm going to, push them down. That's not that's not my intent at all. But I absolutely believe the students want me to say the truth, even if the truth is hard to stomach.
00;24;49;26 - 00;25;13;11
George
But it's the truth, you know, couched in this is how it could be better. These are the skills that you could employ that could improve that. This is the way forward. I think students have told you that. Look, they, if you ask them flexibly, tell you that I am definitely a hard taskmaster, but, I believe in honesty.
00;25;13;13 - 00;25;41;17
George
I think at the end of day, as you say, particularly in this industry, it's much more beneficial to get the truth and have someone sugarcoat it for you. And and then you sort of slightly clouded in your views and, because it eventually it will hit you. Yeah. Think coming from someone like yourself who, who can speak straight but but but say it.
00;25;41;19 - 00;26;00;21
George
without destroying them as well. And that that must be an it's a bit of an art form, I would say, to be able to sort of tell it to them straight, but, but have them walk away and sort of think, you know, I can build from this rather than feeling I'm destroyed. And I was just about to say that I was about to say that, you know, sometimes I don't get it right.
00;26;00;21 - 00;26;16;15
George
Sometimes I get it wrong. You know, the way I will speak to a student. I'll leave a lesson and think I might. You know, I could've. I should have said that first before I said, you know. So it's a learning process for me as well. And I've been doing this for a long time. but I still maintain.
00;26;16;15 - 00;26;43;28
George
And look, the students have a little book that they've developed of all of the things that I say, some of my more, interesting quotes that I'll say that I've developed a book of, of, you know, some of the more interesting ones, but over the years or this just the or just this year, or if you see, every year seems to have these like, book of quotes, the group that just graduated last year gave me like a cookie jar at the end.
00;26;43;28 - 00;27;06;28
George
And inside were all these little pieces of paper with all my sort of quotable lines on them that I'd said to them in classes and in shows over the three years. and look it out of context. They, they do sound quite harsh. but, but I, I, I know that, I don't say anything to be mean.
00;27;06;28 - 00;27;30;23
George
I say things to be truthful and to show them a way forward and to say this is what's lacking in it. And this is the way forward. it's my, you know, on some of those shows, you know, idle and the voice and things like that, and get a divorce, get the main judge and, you know, the main judge and the nice judge who says that everything's wonderful and fabulous.
00;27;30;23 - 00;27;53;18
George
Well, what have I learned from that? I've learned zip from that. I've learned nothing. If you tell me that everything's wonderful and fabulous, but if you say this was this was lovely. And this, is really developing nicely. However, this is is not working and this is the way forward. I don't love comments that way. People just say, well, you don't sing in tune.
00;27;53;20 - 00;28;18;10
George
okay, that's fine if it's not in tune. But tell the poor person some strategies for fixing that and, some very practical ways that that can be fixed. Then I'll listen if you can give me a way forward and I try to instill that in my students, I also I'll just say, as a part of the of all of especially in some rap class, the students are required to comment on each other.
00;28;18;12 - 00;28;41;23
George
and we don't do that to, even though they hate us. We don't do that to make them uncomfortable. We do that so that they can develop skills in head. You can see back that is both encouraging but instructional and offers very real, advice on the way forward. So they're not allowed to say, well, that's out of tune.
00;28;41;25 - 00;29;17;26
George
They could say that, but then they have to follow it up with very clear strategies for improving it. That method sounds very familiar. And I remember when I was at the Conservatorium that, we had masterclasses. I don't know if, you know, an atomic. No. So she, she, she ran these masterclasses and quite a formidable character. she could say the same thing that you, you you feared and loved her at the same time.
00;29;17;28 - 00;29;50;27
George
and she would accompany but also provide feedback, in cyclic encyclopedia knowledge of opera and and repertoire and but and yes likewise as the students were pushed to provide feedback as well. But it was very confronting and I, I didn't do that until I was 30, so and I was terrified receiving feedback and a lot of them were younger than me.
00;29;51;00 - 00;30;14;08
George
getting getting feedback is and you would, you would say you're being torn to shreds, but in reality, you were just given honest feedback, but you sort of feel like you've just gone through some beating as you, as you sort of finished the workshop. But but there was a lot that's unfortunate. I hope that I mean, I know that my students on some rap class challenging.
00;30;14;08 - 00;30;41;13
George
I know that they do. but, we genuinely work hard at making sure that both the comments from the students and comments from staff, truthful. but also instructional. So we never say what is terrible without saying. And we don't say it that way, but we we would say this isn't working right now here, two ways that you could fix that.
00;30;41;13 - 00;31;05;10
George
And then we give them a chance to try it. So, you know, often it can't be fixed on the spot. Sometimes it can if it's an acting choice or, you know, something like that or physical thing or whatever. but we get them to try it again or try it this way, try something different. so it's a masterclass, but it's also an opportunity to, to try things a couple of different ways.
00;31;05;10 - 00;31;25;17
George
So, you know, for example, the student stands up and sings. And the simple thing of changing the key up a tone or something like that, and they sing and I just think, well, it just it's too much. So upper tone and it's straight away it's fixed. So we try to offer them strategies for repair rather than just say, you know, well, it's not working.
00;31;25;18 - 00;31;49;13
George
That doesn't mean something. You how old is this course now the Adelaide Music theater course. We've graduated two lots of students. We're currently in our fifth year. which is amazing to say that our fifth year, it's going incredibly well. I'm very grateful. when I arrived here five years ago that I, you know, there was a blank piece of paper.
00;31;49;13 - 00;32;14;14
George
There were no rehearsal studios, no theater. there was no course, no staff. so, you know, building all of that from scratch has been, and and I say this really honestly, the most challenging thing I've ever done in my life. but incredibly rewarding. and I'm very proud of the course and very proud of what we've achieved just within that time.
00;32;14;20 - 00;32;36;15
George
And when I compare that to other courses around the country, you know, when they were in their fourth or fifth year, I'm very encouraged by where we're at right now. And I, I firmly believe, like, genuinely believe that within five years, we will absolutely be one of the top courses in the country. We're well on the way.
00;32;36;18 - 00;33;06;09
Adam
Well, judging by the numbers that you're getting who are coming down to audition, plus just watching your performances and seeing the standard rise, if that's possible. I was I tried to see all the the your first batch. I'll call them the first batch who went through all their performances. And then I saw the next group, and I think I saw the, Urinetown was oh yes, yes and yeah.
00;33;06;09 - 00;33;34;25
Adam
And I was just blown away by it already. Sort of. I could see that had gone up a notch already, and. Yeah. and it was very exciting just to sort of see these young people and the energy they were giving and I mean, I heard of you through the Amb. Course that you established, which was a massive hurrah for me.
00;33;34;28 - 00;34;07;19
Adam
because it was before then, it was the, the, kind of the contemporary. Yeah, course. And then. Yeah. And the leisure course and then it was just sort of the singing the classic, more of a classical art song stuff. And there wasn't really much in between. There probably had a few music theater pieces in the singing for leisure, but, I was very excited when the music theater, program went through and seeing your name there sort of stood out.
00;34;07;26 - 00;34;32;26
Adam
But one, one question I've got to ask, you know, I've got you. How on earth do you decide how say, that song is going to be a grade one song? That song is going to be a grade two song because obviously they were written with generally adults in mind. Most of us songs, but it's written for adults. And looking at preliminary stuff, I can kind of say I can kind of see it.
00;34;32;28 - 00;35;00;04
George
yeah, but some of them I'm sort of going, so why is that song a grade four? And this song's a grade three, for example. Yeah. How did you how did you come up with that? Well, musical theater is, a tricky beast because, you unlike the singing course where you're really just looking at the vocal demands in music theater, you've got to think about the dramatic demands because they go hand in hand with the singing.
00;35;00;04 - 00;35;27;02
George
So you might get a piece where the melody line is relatively straightforward, but the dramatic arc is complicated and, intense. has lots of pivot points in it and really requires a, a more mature, understanding, or more layered, complex understanding. For me, that carries just as much weight, maybe even more than a complex melody line.
00;35;27;08 - 00;35;52;05
George
Sure, there are musical theater pieces, you know, some gets little and, some, you know, accuser and Franklin Quarry and things like that, that, that, and some, some time that, you know, I mean, you know, melodically complex or harmonically complicated. but there were also pieces that are much easier, but dramatically, much more demanding.
00;35;52;05 - 00;36;17;19
George
So I like to also look at what's going on dramatically. Does this require a lot more, from the performer? But I also then tried to really make sure and this was hard. I tried to make sure that I, I didn't just aim everything at like, for example, if it's great to I tried not to just think that it was going to be a 12 year old or a 13 year old.
00;36;17;23 - 00;36;40;27
George
What if it was an 18 year old, or a 22 year old, or a 30 year old doing great too? I tried to make sure that even some of those lower grades had something reasonably meaty in terms of maturity, so that they weren't just singing about, you know, the sun will come out tomorrow, but something, you know, reasonably meaty.
00;36;40;27 - 00;37;05;10
George
And that was challenging, not so challenging in the higher grades, but in the lower grades, finding, challenging stuff for the odd adults who would come along. I did find I did find pretty difficult, but the entire syllabus I did. I sort of locked myself away for about four months, and I worked on the entire syllabus in that time, I, I did it on my own.
00;37;05;10 - 00;37;28;19
George
I did have a committee, a board that I had to report to. And but I had a fantastic board made up of, some of the, music theaters, most eminent, music directors and, vocal teachers and things like, oh, it was a fantastic board. I was incredibly lucky. so they really didn't give me much resistance.
00;37;28;21 - 00;37;52;19
George
I pretty much got whatever I wanted, but, they were there to offer terrific advice, and, and I also got to, see everything prior to it going to print, but I worked on it very, very quickly and really in isolation, which I, I now look back on those four months of me being alone with just thousands of books, and I still were the grateful.
00;37;52;19 - 00;38;15;16
George
It was a beautiful experience, and I loved every second of it. I'm terribly proud of the syllabus. And I'm terribly proud of especially the vocal pieces and the technical work and things like that, even though it I mean, I examined, grade seven candidate last weekend and like, after she did the exercises, I, I did feel quite shocked at how hard they were.
00;38;15;19 - 00;38;38;24
George
so I, I apologized to her about how hard that was. but I, I'm genuinely really proud about that and proud that more people are singing some of this repertoire, which, you know, is really, really beautiful being a head of music theater course and a lot of big decisions you have to make and so on.
00;38;38;26 - 00;39;05;18
Adam
Who, who, who do you go on unload to or get advice from or or seek out going, I'm overwhelmed or I don't know, where do you go? I have a, I have some colleagues that I work with who I greatly admire and trust and, who are always a sounding board, you know, in my case and concerns.
00;39;05;18 - 00;39;27;23
George
And if I feel like I'm, you know, really lost the plot, which, you know, has happened from time to time. Years ago when I was working, for the Department of Education in New South Wales, and I was doing I was the artistic director of the opera House concert series for about ten years and working on School Spectacular and things like that for a very long time.
00;39;27;26 - 00;39;49;17
George
I had I recruited about, five staff who worked with me. We were a team, and I often say to people that I really miss those days where I could swivel around in my chair and and say to my team, hey, is this a crazy idea? Or, you know, and they would always, say, you know, tell me, you know, let me know if it was a crazy idea.
00;39;49;18 - 00;40;14;07
George
I do this. I have to be honest. I do miss those days of, you know, spinning my chair around and having colleagues. behind me to, to to say that. But, here I do have, some tremendous people, that I work with who, all, experts in the industry, in various capacities. And, I do like to seek them out.
00;40;14;09 - 00;40;41;26
George
whenever I can. There are some decisions that just simply have to be made because they are hard ones and they, financial or, you know, you know, other things that I just have to do on my own, which, you know, that that's fine, but it's nothing I like more than to, you know, then to have a colleague that you can share with, especially when time comes to pick shows for the next year.
00;40;41;29 - 00;41;05;25
George
I love to get, options from staff. All the. They do what I want, but I do. I too love their input as much as I possibly can, but they know that I'll ultimately do what, what feels right in my gut. And I've learned to trust my gut as much as possible. so, but I do miss the days of having a big team.
00;41;05;25 - 00;41;35;03
George
And if I had my chance now, my gosh, I would be hiring people, all over the place. I would love to work in a much larger team, but, just not the way it is. Yeah, yeah, well, we're at that time now, George. Judy, if I could establish five goodies. Fab five. So you get. I get to ask you five questions.
00;41;35;05 - 00;42;01;03
Adam
Random questions about you. About you. Are you ready for this? Yeah. So I can answer. Is this is this a speed. No, no, this is not a it's not a time. We're not on a timer and it's not a I've, I've pre picked these questions a little bit tailor made. okay. So question one what song would make the best theme music for you.
00;42;01;05 - 00;42;05;22
George
Oh my gosh.
00;42;05;24 - 00;42;28;01
Adan
so if if you're going to a political, you know, and you know okay, George, Toby and your music would be playing as you're heading to the podium, what would be your song? there's a song called When I'm 64. When You Still Need Me. We used to fade me when I'm 64. And I am knocking on the door of 64.
00;42;28;01 - 00;42;54;04
Adam
So that's probably nothing wrong with things. Now. Beautiful and good. Good song choice to I love that song. so if money was no object, what show would you love to put on if money was? No, I know, I know, poly high poly prefaced that and also I suppose, and you didn't have to worry about. Oh, I wonder if anyone could actually perform this for me.
00;42;54;04 - 00;43;16;28
George
Right. So I didn't have to worry about I did. I don't have to worry about racial casting or anything. You could. You could, you could, you could handpick the cast. They were all there waiting. And they'd be like the the cast of your dreams. What would you do? I would probably do, the color purple. okay. I think the the the music is divine.
00;43;17;00 - 00;43;42;13
George
absolutely beautiful ensemble moments. Some of the best music I've heard in, in music theater. I think it's absolutely stunning. And if it wasn't that, then I would dearly love to give Titanic, the musical, good God, because the music is divine. But I need a different structure. Yeah. And sync it light. You know, in second act.
00;43;42;15 - 00;44;16;18
Adam
next question. what's what's been your weirdest experience on stage? My weirdest experience. Oh, I can answer that. I was in a production with Nancy Anderson, who I, just was talking about. Nancy and I were in a show, the Cole Porter, show called Can-Can. And, this was many, many years ago. and I was playing Helen, Zach and, in this scene, I was supposed to have this moment with the.
00;44;16;24 - 00;44;35;01
George
I can't even remember the name of the character that Nancy was playing. She's supposed to leave the stage in the same prior and then return, pretty much straight away. And we had this conversation where we meet, and then I, you know, I sing a song, and it was all choreographed and all that sort of stuff. Nancy left the stage and I was off in the wings.
00;44;35;01 - 00;44;57;07
George
Nancy left the stage, in the number before, and she just, just had a memory lapse and she went to the dressing room, totally forgot about the next thing. And so there I was. And the the woman, in the lead, whose name is Mariah Grandy, who's currently in, the professional production of In the Woods in the United States.
00;44;57;09 - 00;45;28;13
George
she was, playing the lead, and she was in the wings, sort of, you know, on the other side, shrugging her shoulders like, I have no idea where Nancy's so she came on even though the scene wasn't supposed to be. We weren't supposed to meet as characters for a couple of scenes. She came on, and, we improvised this dialog around meeting, for the first time, and the I could see the conductor and the orchestra feverishly flipping through their their scores.
00;45;28;15 - 00;45;57;29
George
Yeah, I, I the my lasting memory of that terrifying moment. Nancy eventually did arrive on the stage, huffing and puffing with her dress half undone. Down, down the back. my my lasting memory is how fast my heart was beating in my throat. I've never felt such, angst at Improvization. it was a terrifying moment.
00;45;58;01 - 00;46;19;23
George
Beautiful, but but but did people know it happen and went wrong? Did you know people didn't know that? But sure enough, halfway through the song, once Nancy had arrived, halfway through the song, I looked into the wings and there was the director standing there. Their bringing it on to the stage. Yeah. And as soon as we left the stage, I.
00;46;19;24 - 00;46;49;03
George
Poor Nancy was a mess. and as soon as we left the stage, I said to her, it's fine. It was fine. I was fantastic. It was absolutely fine. Saying nothing to worry about. save the day. I think that's that's a good that's a great story. now, what is one item on your bucket list? And it doesn't have to be musically related, but what's the item that you want to tick off?
00;46;49;05 - 00;47;19;24
George
It's still there. well, I can answer that quite honestly. It's, my last professional show, was, about 25 years ago. and, so, really, if I, if I had, a wish, it would be to perform again. I know that I can, I just, you know, my my job takes up so much of my my, my energy and time.
00;47;19;26 - 00;47;49;03
George
It's so consuming. And I'm not saying that in a negative way. I have to. I'm very I'm very lucky and I'm very grateful to have this job. But it takes every ounce of my energy. I would love dearly, love to perform again, sing again. And I have toyed with the idea in the last few months and and thought that, you know, will I go along and audition and, freak the panel out, you know, walk through the door and freak the panel out and audition again.
00;47;49;07 - 00;48;11;03
George
I would dearly love to trade the bullets again. Just do, a role. Sing again. Nothing would make me happier. What? What role? What would you come back for? should I go, would you try? You know, if you say, I'll make this work. Look, I'm not proud. I'll do anything.
00;48;11;06 - 00;48;44;03
George
You know, I'll. I'll do anything. I don't know. I, was mentioning to somebody because we're doing Sweeney Todd with the students, very soon. And I played the Beatle, quite a number of years ago. And I absolutely adored that experience. Such a great role. I had a blast. I just thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm too old now, but years and years ago I played, Rapunzel's Prince in Into the Woods, and, it was a just a joyous experience.
00;48;44;06 - 00;49;16;09
George
I'm not proud. if anybody's got a role that they, And I'm ready, I'm ready. He's. You heard it, folks. He's ready. Yeah. Pass on. We'll pass. Contact details. Details on later. please. And final question. You've done very well. how do you make tough decisions? I, I try to listen first. I really, genuinely try and listen, both to, people around me.
00;49;16;09 - 00;49;39;00
George
I try to listen to my internal voice about what I believe is the right decision. I, I, I have learned in my career to trust my gut. And I know that that's a, you know, a used expression that doesn't mean anything. But I know when something feels right in my gut. even if it's a tough decision.
00;49;39;02 - 00;50;07;27
George
you know, if in my gut, I feel like it's the right way forward, and then then that's what I do. Am I always right? No. but I, I try to make decisions based on the facts at hand. I try to listen first. I mean, I can be very stubborn, and impatient. but I do genuinely try to listen, and then, I'm more than happy to make the hard decision.
00;50;08;00 - 00;50;32;03
George
and I'm more than happy to also weigh the responsibility of sale decisions. I, I will get it. I'll get it wrong. you better believe it, but I I'm prepared to learn and pick myself up and try again. Great world. flying colors for those with those answers. Even in. But really, the even in your Winnie the Pooh jammies.
00;50;32;03 - 00;50;58;10
George
I mean, I think that added even though we can't see that there's the perceived, there's a Sequa added yes, the essence, the essence of that gave it that extra gravitas. to your answers. Hey, we got a lot of truth. Winnie the Pooh has a lot of truth. George, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. albeit in, you know, in your luxury Peter Alexander pajamas, but,
00;50;58;12 - 00;51;12;11
Adam
Yeah. Much appreciated. And, I'll leave you and you can just kick back and relax and put on your, your slippers and.
00;51;12;14 - 00;51;34;08
Adam
And just relax for the rest of this evening. But thank you so much. It's been lovely to talk to you. Lovely to sort of get to know you a little bit more. Thank you. My pleasure. Have a great day. You too. Go. Well, I can't I.
00;51;34;10 - 00;51;57;23
Adam
And that's George. That was George. That was George. Yeah. No, he had a lot of good things to say, didn't he? Knows it was a lot of fun. That was a fun interview. Yeah. Yeah, I liked the the whole pajamas. Right. That worked really well, right? Yeah. And I also love the way that the way many creators feel that they just want to get back on stage some time.
00;51;57;23 - 00;52;23;27
Adam
I think it's probably a pretty common yearning that people have, even if they go into teaching that they want to be back there and show the world what they've got. Yeah, and hopefully he gets that opportunity. And it was interesting that they he was painting a fairly realistic world to the students himself. They have to be multi diverse and, and develop a variety of skills.
00;52;23;27 - 00;52;44;11
Julie
Yes. I think that's come through with many of the podcasts, but I'm glad that that's actually happening at an educational level. And, and it was interesting if he put it as a positive as well. But, the different experiences that you bring with you can actually enhance you as a performer too, because you've got all these various experiences that you can draw upon.
00;52;44;17 - 00;53;18;26
Adam
Brilliant performer. Yeah. So I liked I liked that that was good. Excellent. That was great. So thank you for listening. And as always, subscribe if you haven't already. Okay. And spread the word around and we'll see you next time. Bye.