What does it take to lead a room full of artists? How do creative leaders inspire and guide? In this episode of The Struggling Artist – Creative Resilience, I sit down with Andy Packer, an award-winning director of theatre, music theatre, and opera. Together, we explore Andy’s artistic journey, uncover surprising sources of motivation as a goanna, and even dive into the curious magic behind the word “ointment.” Join us for an insightful, entertaining conversation about leadership, creativity, and the resilience it takes to thrive in the arts.
Andy Packer
CEO & Artistic Director - Slingsby Theatre Company
Andy is an award-winning director of theatre, music theatre and opera. He has also worked as creative producer of multidisciplinary arts programs, creative director of large-scale events and festival director. In 2007 he co-founded Slingsby.
Andy has also directed productions and events for Adelaide Symphony Orchestra, State Opera South Australia, State Theatre Company South Australia, Adelaide Festival of Arts, Adelaide Fringe, Adelaide Festival Centre, Adelaide Chamber Singers, Australian String Quartet, Windmill Theatre, Restless Dance, Tutti Ensemble, Rundle Mall Management Authority, the International Astronautical Federation and the World of Wearable Art.
A Concise Compendium of Wonder
00;00;01;12 - 00;00;18;23
Adam
This episode deals with topics concerning mental health. If you find any of this podcast triggering, please call lifeline on 131114. If you're in Australia or your local mental health provider.
00;00;18;25 - 00;00;44;10
Adam
Welcome to the struggling artist creative resilience. My name is Adam Goodman and I've gone on a journey of discovery talking to people about the highs and lows in their lives and how they continue to move forward positively. This podcast approaches the topic with an autistic performance framework, but could easily apply to all walks of life. The struggling artist is 100% independent, no ads and no sponsors.
00;00;44;12 - 00;01;13;07
Adam
The show is also totally free for anyone who wants to listen. If you're interested in supporting the struggling artists, there is one main way you can leave a review on your podcast app of choice or otherwise help spread the word. The struggling artist has traveled pretty far, almost entirely on word of mouth, so if you have any friends who you think might like it, don't be shy with your recommendations.
00;01;13;10 - 00;01;47;08
Adam and Julie
Welcome back to the struggling artist creative resilience. My name? Oh, okay. I was going to say my name is Adam Goodburn and I am accompanied by my wonderful partner Julie Goodburn. Hello. Hello. And I can't make Jilly last because she's got a bit of a nasty cough at the moment. So we'll see how we go. So, so today's interview is with Andy Packer.
00;01;47;10 - 00;02;21;00
Adam and Julie
For those of you who don't know, Andy, I'll give you some stats. So Andy is an award winning director of theater, music, theater and opera. He has also worked as a creative producer of multidisciplinary arts programs, creative director of large scale events, and festival director. In 2007, he co-founded Slingsby and he also directed productions and events for Adelaide Symphony Orchestra, the State Opera, South Australia, State Theater Company of South Australia.
00;02;21;03 - 00;02;54;09
Adam and Julie
I'd like first of all the arts I'd like fringe Adelaide Festival Center as a chamber singers, Australian string quartet, Windmill Theater, Restless Dance, Tutti Ensemble, Rondelle, More, Management Authority, the International Astronautical Federation and the World of Wearable Art. But the thing is, that's a mouthful. I'm trying to say that with a mouthful of chips. And I have a professional crush on Andy.
00;02;54;16 - 00;03;26;14
Adam and Julie
This is full disclosure. Because his company, Slingsby, started in saying years. My much more modest company, singular production started. But I was always fascinated by his journey and the production side he put on, and he became a bit of a, sort of a put him on a pedestal a little bit, probably, in terms of what he did.
00;03;26;14 - 00;03;49;09
Adam and Julie
And I try to sort of follow that path in terms of what he was doing. I liked the directions he was coming. So I'm very excited to be having an opportunity to talk to him a little bit about. Yeah, him and his work. He's certainly done a lot, that's for sure. So without further delay this have a listen to the interview with Andy.
00;03;49;12 - 00;04;02;27
Adam and Julie
Excellent, excellent.
00;04;02;29 - 00;04;27;26
Adam and Andy
Andy Packer, thank you for joining us today. Whenever this is because I don't know when this will come out. I always start with this question. And which is do you think artists should suffer for their art? Yes, I do.
00;04;27;28 - 00;04;56;27
Andy
Suffer. I think they should suffer to the degree that they are willing to suffer, because I think part of being an artist is to be brave. And when you're making, your art to be, in a place of discomfort. But I think that you should also put parameters around the level of discomfort that you're happy to work with.
00;04;56;28 - 00;05;25;06
Andy
I don't know that I think the tortured artist idea is a problematic one, but I think that we should understand and accept that part of our role as artists is to step into discomfort in order to ask difficult questions, so that perhaps through the work that we make, we can find answers that are helpful to ourselves, but most importantly, to our audience.
00;05;25;08 - 00;06;06;06
Andy
So I think that suffering is is part of the role, but I think you can put parameters around that. I think the most important thing is that in making your art, you are not making others suffer. Now, something that's always fascinated me, Andy, and why did you become a director? Well, it wasn't the immediate choice. I, I spent probably about a decade, working variously as an actor and also in production in theater and opera.
00;06;06;09 - 00;06;59;29
Andy
And I think, I mean, I was I was getting some work as an actor, but I really it was like I was hungry to be busy in theater. And my beautiful wife, partner Jane observed that I was fairly good at organizing things and organizing people, and that maybe I should have a go at directing. And and yeah, so quite, quite quickly, I was given some fairly fantastic, directing opportunities and, and directing just seemed to fit me and, and I haven't, I haven't pursued any work as a, as an actor since, and I've not had to do any production work either.
00;07;00;04 - 00;07;36;18
Andy
But all of that knowledge helps me as a director. Anyway, had the idea to for any itch to go back into performing. No, I mean, I at the point that I kind of made that change, I think maybe I had this romantic notion that, you know, in my 60s, I would go back and act, but I also would acknowledge that as an actor, I was asking questions that were broader than the, singular vision that you have to have as an actor, I think, which is just to be in the character.
00;07;36;19 - 00;08;06;26
Andy
I was always asking bigger questions about the story and the world and how this was read and understood by the audience. So I think I was probably always a director, just not really not really realizing it, but I think, yeah, yeah. So no, I don't, I as I say, I was getting work as an actor, but I, like, I looked around at other performers that I admired greatly and saw the amount of work that they were, that was sustaining them.
00;08;06;26 - 00;08;32;07
Andy
And I was like, that's not going to be enough for me, and I'm not a good enough performer to compete with them. So, directing it was and I know we share, a common past in working in children's entertainment. You weren't seen in your role, did you? Now, correct me if I'm wrong. So I believe we had a conversation long ago.
00;08;32;07 - 00;08;59;28
Adam and Andy
And you played a goanna in Music Box, the music shop. Music show. Music shop. Yes, I was goanna I was, I was one of several goannas I think out and actually established. Yes. And then myself and Justin Moore shared the role for a while and it was amazing. It was so great. It was such great fun. It was such hard work, and we worked so fast.
00;09;00;02 - 00;09;26;12
Andy
That was one of the things I really loved about TV and children's TV that was being made in Adelaide quite a bit at the time. Was, was you made a lot of it. You know, you moved really quickly. What big world questions were you asking as a goanna? Is is that rock warm enough to sleep on, and do I have enough flies?
00;09;26;15 - 00;09;53;23
Andy
That they were never the same motivation. So method and use. So method. So nothing's changed. Really. But it was, it was so it was so great. And like, I worked with Deb cry Zach and, just amazing performers on that show. And, and then I spent a little while being a very good friend, an intimate friend of Humphreys.
00;09;53;25 - 00;10;18;11
Andy
Lovely. That's lovely. It is. It is very fast paced that, a little bit different from working in a theatrical sense, working on TV in a it can be very hectic. I found it quite hectic, but I also enjoyed that adrenaline, especially when you're sharing that experience with other artists as well, you sort of working together to put something together really quick.
00;10;18;13 - 00;10;44;01
Andy
Yeah. And some tapes were like, that'd be like eight minute takes, you know, like you come in. And the thing was, with Goanna, I had like a very long tail, a very big head and not much vision. And I'd have to squeeze through this little door and turn around and close the door and then into grapevine, you know, with these giant feet and so no problems.
00;10;44;01 - 00;11;12;07
Andy
Great ING as it going on. But you wanted to work out the rock. That was your focus. Exactly. I wanted to sleep on the rock. Okay. So just taking a step back when we're talking the suffering artists, how do you, as a director and producer, how do you manage the wellbeing of your artists when you're working with them, when they're sort of doing those deep dives into the characters?
00;11;12;12 - 00;11;44;06
Andy
Sometimes it may trigger something for them personally. Which can often help the character. But how do you sort of keep everyone sort of in a healthy mindset during that period when they're doing that deep dive? Yeah. I mean, I think the first thing to say is they're not my artists. You know, we, they're collaborating, working together.
00;11;44;09 - 00;12;21;25
Andy
And so, so part that part of my job is to create an environment in an atmosphere where people feel, safe and feel that taking risks is invited. And that's, that's quite often me leading by example. And so and so then I think when things come up, it's just, it's giving people space and care and acknowledging and thanking them for their bravery.
00;12;21;27 - 00;12;48;20
Andy
But also going, we don't need to we don't need to talk about this anymore. We can talk about it if you want to, but we can also just acknowledge that that that we've touched on something and that's there for you to return to. If you find that helps you. But a lot of the theater that we are making is, is very, very detailed.
00;12;48;23 - 00;13;13;28
Andy
And so there's a lot of very detailed physical blocking prop work that is required. And so that can be quite a nice thing to return to. You know, if someone has had something come up for them, then we can return to the detail of the scene. And then that gives the architecture for that performer to be focused on when they need to be focused on something other than what's emotionally happening for them.
00;13;14;00 - 00;13;43;12
Andy
But I would also say that we have a method of storytelling, which is, you know, the words are doing their job, the music is doing their job, it's job. And, the character is doing its job. But the performer, you know, we acknowledge is, you know, the performer is sort of 60% of what's going on. So they are inside the character, having direct eye contact with the audience.
00;13;43;15 - 00;14;09;12
Andy
So they in some ways they're in kind of control of that because, because we're, we're not sort of just, we're not at Slingsby. We're not making realism. You know, we're making, storytelling. And so there is a kind of a control that the actor has over protecting themselves and being willing to be brave enough in those moments as well.
00;14;09;14 - 00;14;41;09
Andy
But I think it's not just in diving into character or situations that, that you have to take care of people. People come into the room each day with a lot going on, you know, and so, so, yeah, we take time to kind of meet each other each day and, and I, you know, I'm, I'm not I'm not always perfect in this, like, I have my own anxieties and frustrations.
00;14;41;11 - 00;15;01;27
Andy
But I think it is that, really making sure that everyone feels respected and that, that they can say, I don't want to. Can we move on from this? I just need a bit of time or. Yeah. So it's communication really, I guess is the answer. I don't know if that answer the questions are.
00;15;01;27 - 00;15;26;04
Andy
Yeah. It does. No. Thank you. I remember long ago now when, I had the great pleasure of working with you on old nonsense. I think it was when we started. But one thing you did right at the very beginning, and and sadly, I don't know if we can do that nowadays, but you, it was you when you discussed it.
00;15;26;06 - 00;15;58;02
Adam and Andy
I think it was something you. What's a tradition for you up to then? And we just all hugged each other. We just went around as a group and it was sort of, rather than sort of a shake shaking event. It was just a a hug and while some people might think that's a bit problematic in this day and age, back then and I, I just loved it, really, opened the doors and, and got rid of all the little boundaries that may existed.
00;15;58;05 - 00;16;25;19
Adam and Andy
Do you have any kind of opening routine that you do with the, your group of people when you're starting off? Yeah, we used to do this. We used to do this hug. Which was really a way of just, embracing each other individually and saying, I'm here for you, and you are acknowledging that you're here for me as well.
00;16;25;19 - 00;16;52;26
Andy
So I know that I can take risks and be brave. Now, and, so, yeah, we we don't do that anymore so much, but we, we do still form a circle, and we do still acknowledge, what we're about to, to do and undertake together. And we share in of course, we share in baked goods. Most important, most important.
00;16;52;27 - 00;17;22;17
Andy
Yeah. So we do we do still do that. And we acknowledge we acknowledge the country we're on as well, at the beginning of each process and, Yeah. So, so I guess it's just evolved into something else. You're quite right, man. I think it did. There was a point. There was like, it felt wrong to ask people from a position of power to allow themselves to, to be hugged.
00;17;22;20 - 00;18;00;03
Andy
So, yeah. So that we sort of, we've paused that that, but it still actually naturally happens for artists who work together a lot at Slingsby, we actually just naturally do that. Just we just, we made each other and we all give each other a hug, so it's it's beautiful. You mentioned this earlier regarding when you're coming into the performing space, sometimes you're bringing a little bit of anxiety or, personal things when you come in, how do you look after yourself in those situations?
00;18;00;04 - 00;18;33;09
Andy
Because I've always found working with you and, so cool, calm, collected and able to bring us together as a unit. But how do you look after yourself? I think I just know that that's my responsibility. That's my part of the job. You know, my part of the job is to, is to create an environment where people feel willing to take risks.
00;18;33;11 - 00;19;00;29
Andy
And in order to do that, a sense of stability is required. So that is that's part of my job. Part of my job is also kind of presenting a kind of an opening vision. And I've learned over time, no one ever in the room does a backflip and says, that's the best thing I've ever heard of. So just be a little bit.
00;19;01;03 - 00;19;33;02
Andy
You have to be emotionally robust to go. Actually, the group just needs somewhere to start so that we can make a start. And then all the good ideas will flow. If the room is being run correctly. And I guess the other part of that is you probably also remember I am a weeper. So I, I do allow myself to not be, emotionally moved by things.
00;19;33;05 - 00;20;02;28
Andy
And that is my barometer. When, when I'm moved by something, I know we're on to something and so I don't I don't shut that part of myself down. I let that be there. But it is. Yeah, it is. I think it's just that I acknowledge the great privilege I have to run a theater company and to lead the creative process.
00;20;03;00 - 00;20;27;24
Andy
And there are artists that are eminently more skilled than me in their area, in the room, and they just need me to do my job. 93 to set the path and be the observer in the room, and keep everyone moving along. That's my job.
00;20;27;27 - 00;20;51;07
Adam and Andy
Who do you confide with when like if you feel like you've had a crap day do you just let it go or do you need to. Do you have a. I've never seen you angry. No that's not true. I've seen you frustrated. Yeah but but not around anyone in particular, but maybe in a situation and and I and for you it's it's calm.
00;20;51;07 - 00;21;17;07
Andy
It's it's full through. I've never seen you lose it, but do you just have moments when you just go away somewhere and have a scream or. Yeah. No, I don't have a scream. No, I mean, I am there, out there sometimes when I get where I might get really frustrated and I'll say something, and then about 15 minutes later, I'll say, I'm really sorry that I was so, so cranky before.
00;21;17;09 - 00;21;59;20
Andy
And people go, really? Gets. But, really the answer, the question is, Jane, you know, like the and it's the is quite often it's just when I get home or in the morning on the dog walk. That and this is what I also mean before about being aware of not, imposing your suffering to on others. There is a, there is a, part of the kind of, sharing your life with someone where you listen to each other and, but you can only complain about the same things for so long until it's like, well, maybe you should do something about that, you know?
00;21;59;23 - 00;22;19;29
Andy
But, but no. And then obviously, you know, there are artists that I've worked with for a long time where we can share our observations of what's working or what not is not working. But, sometimes I'll have to stop if I get really lost and I, and I feel like something's not working, I'll just take a break and say,
00;22;20;01 - 00;22;48;21
Andy
And I'll sometimes just go outside for a three minute walk. Yeah. But again, that's my job, you know, like, I can't, I can't, complain about that. But you take that on board. Others might bring it with them, but but you consciously go, no, I'm not going to impose how I'm feeling upon the group. No, I'm not.
00;22;48;24 - 00;23;08;12
Andy
As I say, I may occasionally, then I'll catch myself and I'll. But I'm not. I'm not. No, I'm not a yella. I'm not yelling at people. And that's not going to get a good result. You know, also, we all know that's just not acceptable anymore. No, not yet anyway. But it's it's, people need to feel safe.
00;23;08;12 - 00;23;37;13
Andy
They deserve to feel safe. And, you know, I have I feel great joy and privilege at being able to provide the nobility of work for artists to come in and do their craft. And if they're willing to bring their knowledge and skill to a project that I'm working on or leading, then I have an obligation to make that a positive experience for them.
00;23;37;16 - 00;24;06;07
Andy
Sure. Do you feel that there's been a shift with, terms of mental health performance, or is it pretty much the same? They bring, through the use you've been directing? It's the same things that people similar things, but different faces. Or do you notice that there's been a shift, that there's, a heightened level of, what people are going through or less?
00;24;06;09 - 00;24;33;18
Andy
I think maybe it's a little bit like what we learned through Covid, you know, in that if you're sick, it's probably best if you stay away. And by that, I mean people, more forthcoming with, I don't, I think I'm, I think I'm coming down with something. Yes. And so we can go back. Well, don't don't come in tomorrow.
00;24;33;19 - 00;24;54;28
Andy
I think it's a little bit like that in that people are now feel a little bit more easily like, come into the room and say, look, I'm just dealing with a lot at the moment. So I apologize if, you know, I'm a little bit not here at times today, like I think people are just getting a little bit better at, acknowledging where they're at emotionally.
00;24;54;28 - 00;25;17;07
Andy
And I think that's a really good thing. But I don't I haven't had the sense that people that have lost have lost courage or bravery in, diving into difficult things. And I and I think, you know, I think maybe there was a little period there where we all felt like we had to kind of share what our sadness was.
00;25;17;09 - 00;25;44;12
Andy
But and I certainly I've moved on from that. And I think other artists have as well. People want to come to work and make something that's going to bring joy into people's lives. Wonderful. Now, just for a moment, people may not know much about Slingsby. Why did you bring the Slingsby together? What was what was the aim when you when you brought it?
00;25;44;18 - 00;26;19;01
Andy
And and also how long how old is it now? The the company turns 20 in next year. Wow. 20. So I mean, the really the aim was to create emotionally complex theater for an audience aged 10 to 14 was sort of the starting point, but it's has now really become eight to adult. And we're a company that is a storytelling company.
00;26;19;01 - 00;26;59;18
Andy
So it's theater with full music sound sets, but it's in the form of storytelling. Sometimes those stories are told by 2 or 3 voices, but they're also stories that deal with loss and grief and beauty and wonder. So they're always in the stories, the characters. The main character finds themselves quite lost and confused, and it's through their experience of the world and the characters that they meet that they discover that something is unlocked in them that gives them, the ability to move back, to hope and enjoy the wonder of the world.
00;26;59;21 - 00;27;31;14
Andy
That's what we that's what we do. Then we've we've toured work, to 13 countries around the world, multiple seasons in New York, multiple seasons in the Dublin Theater Festival and across Ireland in the UK, tour to China, India, multiple seasons in outside our in Spain, Norway and all around Australia. And and yes, it's it's wonderful thing to be part of bringing a company like that.
00;27;31;16 - 00;27;54;04
Andy
I mean, I led I founded the company, and brought a team of artists together. So it's a wonderful to have an idea for that. And then 20 years later, be it's my full time job and and I've been able to travel the world doing it. And now we're in the final phase, the final chapter of the company.
00;27;54;07 - 00;28;31;16
Andy
And, creating a final work. I'll get to that in a minute. One thing I've loved about your work is you're never afraid to explore the darkness, particularly for, a young audience. When people might want to sanitize and and sort of or unicorns and rainbows. But you're not afraid to, address that. And with, a young audience witnessing, would you like to just to to talk a little bit about why you made that choice?
00;28;31;19 - 00;28;58;02
Andy
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, you have to make theater if you're making, then it has to be art that you're genuinely engaged with yourself that you find interesting, that that you are emotionally connected to. And I think, I think that, you know, when it comes to a young audience, it's not us job to try and protect an audience.
00;28;58;02 - 00;29;25;19
Andy
We can't protect people from the sadness of the world. But perhaps through story, we can prepare people. And and I think that's not in a didactic way, but in a genuine story way go this character confronted these very challenging situations. And, and lead the audience back to a sense of hope, but a sort of a hard one.
00;29;25;22 - 00;30;03;08
Andy
Hope and Slingsby, his work is always has this esthetic of nostalgia. And, so it's this should be this sense of how people have survived this before. So I will there is a pathway here for me to survive. And I think the other thing is, you know, when you've got, a room full of 12 to 13, 14 year old young people, particularly if they've all come from one school, they, you know, there's a social experience going on there in that group of young people.
00;30;03;10 - 00;30;35;22
Andy
And you can do one of two things. You can turn the music up really loud and turn the lights down on them and make it broad on stage and just kind of pretend they're not there. Or you can acknowledge that they're in the room and acknowledge that they're there as individuals. And, be as honest and open about the complexities of the world that they are experiencing, or they have a sense of, anticipation that they're going to experience.
00;30;35;24 - 00;31;03;29
Andy
And when you're that emotionally honest, that audience really leans in and they, like, oh, we're being really respected here. Being let into something that we're not normally let into, which are being let into the half heard conversations that we we hear between our parents, and adult friends. We sort of brought in to some something sacred and helpful.
00;31;04;01 - 00;31;18;09
Andy
That's, that's what I hope that we're doing. And and then theater is ritual. So it's, it's creating, you know, something that's that's social and, ritualistic and helpful.
00;31;18;12 - 00;31;49;08
Andy
You recently announced Sling Space final Adelaide season. And the works titled A Concise Compendium of Wonder. What's what's happening in that? Yeah. So that is, this kind of has come about through a couple of things where, an immersive touring company. So we have, you know, sort of 20 years experience, of, excuse me, that's my lunch.
00;31;49;10 - 00;32;18;16
Andy
We have we have, 20 years experience of, taking really immersive theater worlds into a whole lot of range of different theater spaces and transforming those spaces. And we've learned over the years that, every new venue provides opportunities and compromises and so this project is a way to kind of address those compromises and create the perfect, performance space.
00;32;18;16 - 00;32;55;25
Andy
That's the same everywhere that we go. And the other really important component is that since 2022, we've been measuring our carbon footprint, really because young people, experiencing climate anxiety and have a sense of impending doom for the future. And we know that from our carbon measurement that we, not we're not solely responsible for the climate situation, but we know how much carbon we use, and we know that we can reduce that dramatically just by making different choices.
00;32;55;28 - 00;33;28;18
Andy
And so this project is three complete productions performed by one cast on one set. And that set is a regenerative, we designed wooden portable building. So it sounds like it's a it's more carbon use. But actually when we travel with three shows with one lot of freight, that's always road or rail or sea freight. And we spend three times as long in a city where reducing our carbon and we're getting better.
00;33;28;21 - 00;33;48;26
Andy
We're getting better bang for our buck so that, so that we can spend more time in each community, have deeper connection to those audiences. And when someone falls in love with one of the shows, instead of saying, when can I see your next show? An hour, to being maybe in three years time? The answer is, why don't you come back tomorrow?
00;33;49;03 - 00;34;39;12
Andy
Or in an hour and a half, you you can come and see another show. So it's an incredible team. And the building is called the Wandering Hall of Possibilities and seats 110 people. And it will contain every theater magic making element you can imagine. And, and the audience transforms from sitting in the round to traverse. And on across the three shows, the three stories, separate stories, but they span sort of a 2000 year, chronology, with each one talking about humanity's relationship with nature and how that's shifted over 2000 years.
00;34;39;14 - 00;35;01;27
Andy
So it's it's pretty epic. And people can come and see all three shows in one day, or they can just come and see one show and then come back the next week. And it's part of the Adelaide Festival and it's, a, a month long season and where the building will be, on the Pine Tree lawn in the Adelaide Botanic Garden.
00;35;01;29 - 00;35;28;11
Andy
So it's also a very beautiful environment to come and see theater and then step out into the subject that we've been talking about. How do you come up with these wonderful visions or stories? I'm always amazed by, these just just the descriptions of them. Draw me in. How how do you come up with them?
00;35;28;13 - 00;36;02;16
Andy
Well, it's, through collaboration with amazing artists and and an amazing team. And then slowly we sneak up on them, you know, like those ideas unfold. I think always you're trying to solve a problem, and if it's a genuine problem, then you will find an interesting solution to that problem. And, was also just always has to be something that,
00;36;02;18 - 00;36;25;29
Andy
Moves me that I think I want to say that. And if I want to say it, then chances are other people will want to say it. But if I think if I try to make something that, I think people will want to see but doesn't really interest me, probably nobody will like it. So, so so you come in with the question.
00;36;26;01 - 00;36;57;04
Andy
And so I've been thinking about this and then through discussion something evolves. Or is it was a bit more structured than that. Yeah. It was really like what would happen if we made if we toured three shows at once? And what if those shows were based on Fairy tree tales, but also somehow related to nature? And, I mean, I just loved David Attenborough, you know?
00;36;57;06 - 00;37;23;13
Andy
So it's also like, how do we put that and that, reverence and, reverence for nature in, into the theater? And then those things sort of slowly come together and you and then you, of course, like when we first made our first show, The Tragical Life cheeseboard that in that we invited people into this little tent, which was like a traveling magic lantern show tent from the 1890s.
00;37;23;16 - 00;37;56;17
Andy
So we made this little fabric thing really, because we wanted we're trying to find a way to be able to bring an immersive, like, I guess before immersive was even a wing, a word or a thing. We're trying to kind of provide blackouts to school audiences in regional communities. And really, the wandering Hall of possibilities. Just the same question being answered by a company that's 20 years down the track and has, some resources to put to it.
00;37;56;17 - 00;38;31;23
Adam and Andy
Now. How do you feel Slingsby has evolved since its birth 20 years ago. How has it changed? And in some ways, we haven't changed. You know, that's the someways that's the nice thing. We're still we're still asking the same questions. But at the same time, it's changed enormously in that it's it's it's, much bigger company with more resources.
00;38;31;25 - 00;39;05;23
Andy
And we have confidence as well, you know, like, I guess we've got the confidence as a creative team to know, that we have a number of successful shows in our past, so we should have confidence that we can achieve that again. And I guess the other thing is, since Covid, like, we really we we did go back to international touring, but we haven't we've been here more and I think more people know about us here.
00;39;05;26 - 00;39;31;19
Andy
I think that's just the thing of being around for longer. Yeah. And we have the we have the absolute delight of having a very loyal, very mobile schools audience. We just have, you know, a lot of schools that trust us. And that's wonderful. And then, and that's what's going to be beautiful about this final Adelaide season is.
00;39;31;22 - 00;40;00;09
Andy
Yeah, is being able to say farewell to those schools and to the family audiences, with this really significant work. So I think yeah, I think, I mean, it's been nice that we've, I've had the last 20 years of collaborating with Quincy Grant and Wendy Todd and then there's other artists that sort of come into that picture as well, like Chris portrayed us and Alyssa Paterson, and then our team as well.
00;40;00;09 - 00;40;29;24
Andy
So the the administrative team and production team. Yeah, we've we've just gathered a group of incredible people, you know. I have to ask you this question. Why is it ending? It's it's ending because, you know, as as we've grown and evolved as a company, we have certain expectations of ourselves. And I think our audience do as well.
00;40;29;27 - 00;41;02;04
Andy
And at the moment, you know, we've just not been able to secure the level of investment federally that will allow us to make the work that we want to make. And so if we're not making that work, we need to spend more time trying to secure those resources to make that work. And after 20 years, I'm not, satisfied to sit at a desk trying to find the resources to make the work that I know that we could just make if we had the resources.
00;41;02;06 - 00;41;29;17
Andy
So I just want to spend less time, chasing money and more time making. However, it's possible to make make that happen. But so that's, that's really the, the, the crux of it, but also, you know, 20 years it will be 21 years by the time we wind up the company. That's a pretty great, amount of time for a team to work together.
00;41;29;19 - 00;42;08;00
Andy
And we could see on the horizon it was either diminishing or take the opportunity to really wind up the company in a way that is very rare, with a sense of legacy and delivering, a beautiful big project at the end. And, as Wendy Todd says, leave them wanting more. I know that's been done a couple times in the past when you were, thinking this might be it for Slingsby and to to, governmental funding changes.
00;42;08;03 - 00;42;26;02
Andy
I'll just say that and, and things were a bit cloudy as to what the future held for Slingsby. And I can remember having a conversation with you about that. And I think at that stage your it was looking like it might mean that Slingsby had to finish. And this is going back a few years ago now.
00;42;26;04 - 00;42;55;25
Adam and Andy
And I know I was asking you a similar question. How how could it how could it stop? And you were just so, okay with it and, and, it that and you felt, you know, things come to an end. It's sort of the natural circle of life. And other things will come. In some other, form.
00;42;55;28 - 00;43;22;01
Andy
So what? What's next for beyond Slingsby for you? Andy? I have absolutely no idea. Like, really, I mean, I have things that I would, I would love to do. But I really there's no plan. There's no, I don't have a five year plan, Adam, I should, but I, I, I think the next two years are going to be extremely busy.
00;43;22;04 - 00;43;51;02
Andy
Kind of wrapping up the company and, Yeah, I just have faith, trust in the universe that, the opportunities will come along. I'll still be interested in telling stories. Probably stories with music. But also just be nice to, work to somebody else's vision for a little while as well. And, have a boss know, be responsible for everything.
00;43;51;04 - 00;44;10;16
Andy
And would you like a boss? So, Andy, I have a well, I'd love, love bosses in the past. I mean, there's nothing better than having a boss that you can sort of, every couple of days, rock up to their desk and go look what I did, you know? And, so, yeah, I, I would, would, I would very much enjoy that for, for a while.
00;44;10;19 - 00;44;32;24
Andy
And then there's a sort of half vision of going and spending a bit of time overseas and having a, an adult gap year or two, and then coming back and starting something anew. But who knows? It's it's, I think this company is wrapping up at a stage in my life where I've got time to have a second act doing something.
00;44;32;24 - 00;45;14;06
Andy
So we'll say, yes, watch this space, everyone. So, said, if I could. He said five. This is the moment where I ask you some random questions, Andy. Okay, so don't think too hard about them. They're they're just meant to be sort of a spontaneous response. So here we go. Question number one. What is your earliest memory? My earliest memory.
00;45;14;06 - 00;45;46;13
Andy
One of them is actually, being on stage with a little ax. Skipping around on stage. Well, at least I hope it was on stage. You were not safe. Yeah. I remember being in, like, it was like a church musical or something. And was I Christopher Robin or someone I can't remember? Anyway, h Washington. Yeah, I was someone with an ax.
00;45;46;15 - 00;46;19;06
Adam and Andy
If you could learn one skill instantly, what would it be to play the piano? Would you would you take up lessons? No. I want to learn instantly every. Every day. The grind. I sit down at the piano and I go, maybe now I've got it. That hasn't happened yet. That hasn't happened yet. That would be amazing, to be able to sit down at a piano and just be able to play a piano would be unbelievable.
00;46;19;08 - 00;46;38;02
Adam and Andy
It. Yes, it is nice to be able to do it. I do thank my mother for all her hardships in making me learn the piano. Yeah. Are times when it is just nice to be able to sit down and just sort of muck around on it for a little bit and imagine, yeah, that's the beautiful thing. Question number three.
00;46;38;04 - 00;47;12;25
Adam and Andy
You're doing very well so far. Anything. If you could un invent one thing, what would it be? I. Y I think I know because it's cancer. It, it it I don't mind it ticking away in the background. Doing a few little basically machine learned things that makes a little bit of programing, but, when it's used for creative purposes, I think it's used by lazy people.
00;47;12;28 - 00;47;45;09
Adam and Andy
And I've, I know, I know all sorts of really nice people, but, we're letting something in the door that we will perhaps not be able to get out and, is it actually, it concerns me more than anything has concerned me. I really I really worry about it. And it's we're always I always feel we're just one step behind the technology like we just release it without actually assessing it.
00;47;45;09 - 00;48;10;09
Adam and Andy
And then we're playing catch up once we've, we've let it out the cage. Yeah. We can wait then just to go. Maybe we should have assessed this before we let it out of the cage. What's the intent behind it. What's the ultimate goal? I mean, now I'm hearing about artificial general intelligence, which basically the goal seems to be to replace everybody in every job.
00;48;10;11 - 00;48;36;05
Adam and Andy
So what do we do then? You know, as I was saying, it gives me great pleasure to have the privilege to provide people with an opportunity for the nobility of work. Work isn't all awful. It's part of what we need as humans. And if people are too lazy to learn a skill, I mean, like me, you know, wanting to sit down and instantly play the piano.
00;48;36;07 - 00;49;05;08
Adam and Andy
Well, no, that takes hard work and craft and labor and skill, and the people that have that ability should be rewarded and applauded and celebrated, not replaced by, someone, you know, creating some program that schemes that every piano player that ever existed. And then, guys, look what I did. I could play the piano. No you can't. You're a thief.
00;49;05;11 - 00;49;38;03
Adam and Andy
No. Fair enough. Question. Before what is the behavior that you find strangely endearing or attractive. Well snorting when people with some people that's not when I remember, do you do that. Maybe once or twice in my life, but yeah, snort is a great. I'm not a supporter. And you're not. And you're not embarrassed by it.
00;49;38;05 - 00;50;03;17
Adam and Andy
Then props to you. I'm not. I don't know what the word is. I'm going to change in order. I'm not a habit, but yeah, I think, yeah, if I'm caught out, I'll do a snort. But it's not a common thing. But. Yes, but it's a funny sound, too, so I think it means enjoyment for everyone. So it's a it's like an excess and an abundance of or an excess of joy is what it's like.
00;50;03;17 - 00;50;09;02
Adam and Andy
So much joy can't get out quick enough.
00;50;09;05 - 00;50;38;09
Adam and Andy
Question number five. You've done very well, Andy. What is your favorite word to say out loud? There's there is one, but I can't think of it at the moment. I think that favorite. No, I'm trying to think of right words. No, it doesn't have to be the ultimate. But what is it? Well, what is a favorite word?
00;50;38;11 - 00;51;11;29
Adam and Andy
Well, cucumbers. Pretty nice to say. Cucumber. Okay. Any particular one I hang on I remember it is. Yep. Ointment ointment ointment. Ointment. Is that you think that's an interesting shape word in your mouth? Yeah, I like how it. Yeah. Oh, wait. Ointment. There was a very early version of,
00;51;12;01 - 00;51;41;11
Adam and Andy
Trying to explain what Slingsby would be, which I think Jane came up with, which was ointment for the human condition. Okay, that that's what great storytelling and great theater can be. Is ointment, ointment, condition. I have a similar word in mind. Is nourishment or nourishment. Well, they're they're similar. Yeah. And also because it's I just feel that the word itself sounds like it's nourishing.
00;51;41;18 - 00;52;06;29
Adam and Andy
Yes. It's almost very warm and nourishment. Does this sound like, like a, like a, like a hug or something like that? Yeah. So that is kind of my it is like slurping up soup. It is. Yeah. So there you go. Point moves survived at no point meant. And nourishment is is the words of a day brought to you by like and nourishment.
00;52;07;01 - 00;52;35;16
Adam and Andy
There you go. That's should take away folks. Thank you so much, Andy. It's always it's always lovely to speak to you. It's a constant inspiration for me. You are. And your your sort of calmness and I have this little voice when I'm doing stuff. What would Andy do in this situation? In a theatrical term, I sort of go through my data banks and thinking, how would it how would Andy deal with this?
00;52;35;18 - 00;53;05;28
Adam and Andy
Probably be sitting, smiling and weeping. And yeah, and sometimes I do some work in front of the annoying kids, but not. You can try it. You never know, I could. I'm glad Mr. Goodburn's lost it again. But thank you for your time. And I hope to see you and your beautiful creative mind evolve on stage.
00;53;06;00 - 00;53;34;02
Adam and Andy
Many more years to come. But. Yeah, and people should come and see a concise compendium of one day. Yes. On that. Well, if if I want to, contact you or Slingsby or find more about, compendium. How did I go about doing that? I should go to the Adelaide Festival website. And in the search, little search section, just type in compendium and they will find page that, has information about the compendium.
00;53;34;02 - 00;54;03;02
Adam and Andy
All three shows, the opportunity for to buy a triptych packages or individual shows and, a whole lot of information there. The other thing would say is, like botanic gardens have been amazing, and they're creating self-guided walks for people. Between that, they can do between the shows or before or after the shows as well. So there's a whole lot of, you can come and spend a day very happily saying the compendium and just luxuriating in the beautiful garden.
00;54;03;04 - 00;54;30;25
Adam and Andy
Wonderful. And they can, you have a website, Slingsby has a website, and we do information that, absolutely. Slingsby dot net that I do. And and yeah, there's a whole lot of information there and also a whole lot of information about our environmental, activity as well. Okay. Great. Thank you so much, Andy.
00;54;30;27 - 00;55;15;00
Adam and Julie
And we're back with, hello. What are some takeaways from that interview that she got Julie, I took away from the fact that, Andy has a good personality for the arts and that he's pretty adaptable, and he has, even demeanor, which helps him deal with a lot of challenges, and that he is pretty resilient with all the changes and things that, you know, his company's been through and even just his positivity and view to the future, I think it's quite admirable.
00;55;15;02 - 00;56;05;26
Adam and Julie
He's he's got a very professional approach to, how he works as a director generally. The fact that he doesn't well, he tries not to bring any personal things on board. He he's very pragmatic in that regard. So that's my job. That's what I have to do. I have to bring people together. Yeah. So I do, admire that pragmatism and also the ability to be able to, also come back afterwards if if you've felt like you've had a bit of a bad moment and acknowledge that to the cause, that's also quite, quite refreshing because now not a lot of directors do that.
00;56;05;29 - 00;56;36;17
Adam and Julie
Some do. And my experience generally is that directors are quite good. But there can be at times that they bring a bit of personal baggage in. Yeah. So I do admire how. Yeah. And is able to sort of step out from that and, and recognize he's got a job to do and, and might even and might even communicate that openly with the cast.
00;56;36;20 - 00;57;02;09
Adam and Julie
I also liked, his response to struggling artists, the idea that we do need to struggle at, at life is a bit of a struggle, and that in order to rise. Yeah, generally. And and, maybe it's a bit of a loaded question when you, when you're asking for, to struggle but and not and never any and there is no right or wrong.
00;57;02;13 - 00;57;30;29
Adam and Julie
No. It's more but I do like the, the idea that, in terms of being resilient, that we do have to go through hardships and, and come out the other end and learn, have some learning experience. So really say that we have to have hardships. I guess what I'm talking about, that there has to be that challenge in a way, to get creativity.
00;57;31;02 - 00;57;56;09
Adam and Julie
That's how I want it to, perhaps. And I have to be hardship, but it can just be like a sort of, a pressure or a reason or a challenge there, because that's the thing that helps to develop the person. I agree, I agree, yes, I probably was a bit, heavy with the struggling, but there we have it.
00;57;56;11 - 00;58;25;27
Adam and Julie
There we have it. We have it's really interesting. It was it was a lovely conversation. And as always, if you want to, get further information about, Singular Productions or Slingsby, I've put the information in the notes for, for this episode. So thank you very much for listening. Awesome. Stay stay tuned for the next one. Make sure you go see Slingsby.
00;58;25;27 - 00;58;37;08
Adam and Julie
Show the of them. Yes, absolutely. Which will be for the at the Adelaide Festival for 2026. Brilliant. Be there okay bye for now. Goodbye.