What do you do when your health restricts you from doing what you love? In Episode 4 of 'The Struggling Artist – Creative Resilience', I speak with Casmira Lorien, performer and teacher, about her journey and the importance of inclusivity in the workforce.
Vocal & Acting Coach
She/Her
Casmira is an experienced performer and qualified teacher with a great passion for storytelling, mental health, and vocal health.
Her teaching experience spans multiple disciplines and age groups, beginning her career as a Theatre Sports Coach, and moving into teaching young people 6months to 18 years dance, drama, and private singing lessons at Adelaide Theatre Academy. There she also headed the ‘in schools program’ taking performance workshops into various schools around South Australia as well as specialised singing workshops for the Wakkakirri Festival.
Casmira is a qualified middle/secondary teacher, and has taught Drama, Music and English ELC – Year 11 at Marryatville High School, St Peter’s College (boys) and for the last 5 years at Wilderness School.
As a performer, highlights have included performing the role of ‘Violet’ in Davine Productions’ Violet (for which she won the TASA award for Best Female Performance 2017) and ‘Fantine’ in the G&S Society’s production of Les Misérables (for which she was nominated for a Curtain Call: Best Female Performance 2018).
In 2018 she performed in Edges with Irregular Productions for the Adelaide Fringe Festival, ‘Shelby’ in Steel Magnolias with IpSkip, ‘The Lady of the Lake’ in Spamalot with Marie Clark Musical Theatre (winner of Best Ensemble Curtain Call 2018), and the ‘Sour Kangaroo’ in Seussical with Northern Light Theatre Company.
In 2019 Casmira played nine characters in Judge Jackie: Disorder in the Court with Davine Productions (which won Best Ensemble and Best Musical at the 2019 Curtain Call Awards, as well as the TASA for Best Musical) and Lynette ‘Squeaky’ Fromme in Assassins for Hills Musical Company.
Professionally, Casmira has acted and provided voices for several short films and children’s productions. She also spent many years directing and music directing musicals for Adelaide Theatre Academy, including Snow White and Alice in Wonderland for the Festival Centre’s ‘Something on Saturday’ program. Some of her fondest memories are working with Peter Combe in directing and choreographing his Adelaide Fringe Festival shows from 2013-2015.
https://www.lorien.ink/about/casmira-lorien/
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;31;11
Adam
This episode deals with topics concerning mental health. If you find any of this podcast triggering, please call lifeline on 131114. If you're in Australia or your local mental health provider. Welcome to the struggling artist's creative resilience. My name is Adam Woodburn. Now I've gone on a journey of discovery, talking to people about the highs and lows in their lives and how they continue to move forward positively.
00;00;31;14 - 00;00;56;26
Adam
This podcast approaches the topic with an artistic performance framework, but could easily apply to all walks of life. The struggling artist is 100% independent, no ads and no sponsors. The show is also totally free for anyone who wants to listen. If you're interested in supporting the struggling artists, there is one main way you can leave a review on your podcast app of choice or otherwise help spread the word.
00;00;56;29 - 00;01;21;17
Adam
The struggling artist has traveled pretty far, almost entirely on word of mouth. So if you have any friends who you think might like it, don't be shy with your recommendations. Welcome to struggling artists creative resilience. Hello. I'm out of a good firm and that was my wife, Julie. Goodburn. Hey, do.
00;01;21;20 - 00;01;54;15
Adam and Julie
Julie's the Swedish backpacker. Oh, I know Luke. It's all good. Go wash. Feed and. Here you go. Feel kind of mountains. Yeah. Oh, don't. Don't use accents. No accents. No accents. No accents. What? What's what? It's mine. An accent though? No. Not anymore. What is it then? It doesn't matter. It's all right here. You got say. So the person I'm interviewing today is Casmira Lauren.
00;01;54;17 - 00;02;37;01
Adam
Yes. And how long ago? Very talented. And, just some brief rundown of what cashmere has done. Cashmere is an experienced performer, writer and teacher of drama. Highlights have included performing the role of Violet in Divine Productions. Violet. And she won, an award for best female performance in 2017. She's played Fonteyn in Gilbert and Sullivan Society of South Australia's production of lame, miserable, for which she was nominated for Curtain Call Best Female Performance in 2018.
00;02;37;04 - 00;03;15;07
Adam
And there's been many other production she's been involved with, predominantly music theater. I've had a great pleasure of working with cashmere on a couple of projects. But one of the things I really was interested in, talking to her about was her, health and and how that's, impacting on her ability to perform now. So that was something for the for might, apply to many people who, for whatever reason, no longer able to do things that they normally do.
00;03;15;10 - 00;03;54;07
Julie
So. Yes. Yeah. No, it's, it's good to have that sort of thing. Because many people that we don't know, I have things are struggling with health wise or a disability of some sort, and, can really affect their, their, state of mind and their willingness to participate and all of those things and particularly in, the performing industry, it can be fairly inflexible in terms of, being able to accommodate certain needs, and rehearsing and so on.
00;03;54;07 - 00;04;09;19
Adam
So this is, something that we discuss a little bit in this interview. Cool. All right. So let us now listen to the interview with Casmira.
00;04;09;22 - 00;04;54;19
Adam and Casmira
I suppose I'm going to jump to the first key question, which I ask everyone. Is do you think artists should suffer for their art? And I'll and I'll sort of expand on that in tears set failing sometimes in the wider community that in order to be creative, there needs to be a certain level of suffering. We experience it in terms of funding and so on, and so and sometimes I'm guilty of, of, feeling like, well, necessities, the mother of invention that sometimes not having a lot at hand does force you to be creative.
00;04;54;19 - 00;05;25;22
Adam and Casmira
But I think it can go a little bit the other way, too, where people feel that we need to be scrounging and and suffering in order to, to be to be an artist. Do you how do you feel about that? That is such a good question, and I feel like it goes in so many different directions. I think my brain's like painting lots of different things, which is like, I mean, my first reaction is that I think you can't get away from it.
00;05;25;22 - 00;05;55;18
Casmira
Like, you can't. Life is suffering, to be really bleak about it. But like, you can't you can't be alive and not suffer, in just your own kind of special way. So I think the artist's job, I guess, is the ability to channel that into something that feels productive or feels like it turns that into something beautiful.
00;05;55;20 - 00;06;22;29
Casmira
I think that a lot of our job is is in storytelling, so it's in kind of figuring out the lessons that we get from suffering or the, you know, what is what is suffering for what is suffering there to teach us all of that sort of thing. And it's also finding connection, I guess, like, for me, my biggest thing about art is that sense of human connection.
00;06;22;29 - 00;06;45;25
Casmira
So that just that notion that we're not alone in it and this is what life is and this is what loving is, and this is what, wearing together. So I don't think you can have art without those elements. Like, I just don't think that that it exists without that. But I do agree with you in the sense that I think it can get taken too far.
00;06;45;27 - 00;07;09;21
Casmira
And that people sort of feel like they can't create unless they're really depressed or, you know, like, like they've got to create the, the, what's the word like the, the environment I'm in. Yeah. Like the, the kind of scrounging up as much drama or much pain as they possibly can. I'm certainly like, I think I'm guilty of that in some ways.
00;07;09;21 - 00;07;43;27
Casmira
Like, I, I love to write and I love to. Yeah, I, I find often that the spaces in which I write, the spaces where I'm processing something big and if I'm if life is going along quite well, then I tend to not write things. But I, you know, it's it's, I can disprove that really quickly by saying some of the best things I've ever written have been written from spaces of deep love and happiness rather than pain.
00;07;43;29 - 00;08;28;23
Casmira and Adam
So I, I, I guess my answer to the question is that I think life is inherently all of those things, suffering and joy and everything in between. And art is a reflection of that. Bravo! Thank you. Bravo very much. Well done. Good. Good response. Now, how did performing find you? Kashmir. I think that I am one of those people that just always did it without ever questioning while where it came from.
00;08;28;25 - 00;09;06;10
Casmira
My parents were both performance and they met at drama school and it was kind of embedded into sort of the family that we were all very musical at. Music was a big thing growing up. My brother is a guitarist, my sister played the piano and I, but I came out singing, pretty much from the moment I could talk and was one of those kids that, like, told everyone they had to shut up and sit down and watch me, because I'm going to perform now.
00;09;06;13 - 00;09;25;25
Casmira
And so like, it's really interesting now that I have my own daughter, because I've kind of realized that that's not inherent to every kid. Like I thought it was maybe that most kids were a bit like that, but no, like, she's not really like that at all. So I've got, Okay. That was just that was me.
00;09;25;27 - 00;10;12;21
Casmira
And yeah, I, I always I just loved, I just loved singing. It was like my joy. And so, I just took every opportunity that I could to do it. And then I guess because I did it so much, I got kind of good at it. The acting side of things, like the actual performing character and that sort of thing came a bit later, like, I when I was nine, eight, I got, I auditioned for my high school, the High School Musical, we were doing at the time, which was Guys and Dolls.
00;10;12;23 - 00;10;22;25
Casmira
And I got the role of Sarah Brown. And I was, oh, I just knocked my coffee cup over. I'm just gonna pick that up once. Say.
00;10;22;27 - 00;10;49;11
Casmira
And, I was the I was the youngest person in my high school's history to ever get lead role in youthful flicks, so I know, right? I would say I have never talked to that. I remember, which of the year 12. So did you. But it was like it was one of those weird things where, like, it did sort of get me some it kind of bit of notoriety at school.
00;10;49;11 - 00;11;12;27
Casmira
A lot of people sort of were like, who's this bitch? Where did she come from? And then I also but it was, it was but like the best thing that ever happened to me because I wasn't, I wasn't brilliant at being, I wasn't I wasn't brilliant at making friends, and I, I was always just a bit odd, I guess.
00;11;12;27 - 00;11;37;17
Casmira
And, I struggled in those first, like, that first year of school, at a new school. And I just needed that, thing that was mine that I was good at and that I could do. And it was that was the discovery of that I think was like going, oh, I can, I can do this.
00;11;37;17 - 00;12;01;18
Casmira
And I actually really love it. And it also meant that I made friends with everyone in other year levels and they would, you know, say hello to me in the hallways and stuff like that, like these cool year elevens and twelves and, and suddenly I was I wasn't, I wasn't a kind of strange loner anymore. I had, I had that thing that was mine.
00;12;01;20 - 00;12;19;06
Casmira
And then I just said I. That meant that I fell in love with it. Like I completely fell in love with it. And I just became like I defined myself by being the arts kid. And I just did every art subject, and I loved drama, and I just completely because we didn't obviously do drama in primary school. Like it wasn't a thing that I could discover I loved until I started high school.
00;12;19;06 - 00;12;45;21
Casmira
And then, I just, yeah, leaned into it so heavily that it became like, my entire identity, I think. And then that was all like, it was all I ever. Yeah, it was all I ever wanted to do. And all I ever thought about doing. And so. But it was a musical. Yeah. Were you playing? Was Sky Masterson a senior?
00;12;45;24 - 00;13;11;02
Casmira
Yes, he was a year 11. And that was a thing like some at the time the show went on. I had turned either 13 or 14, I can't remember, but he was 17, so that was really controversial at the time. I. And I did have to kiss him like four times per show to, no, no, I did not mind.
00;13;11;05 - 00;13;37;05
Casmira
He was very gorgeous. I had a huge crush on him. And he knew it, too, because he he was one of those guys. I just knew that he was like, God's gift by one hand, I hate them. Yeah, right. Like, yeah, he's. What is he? Insecurity. Come on. Self-confidence. Oh, he had plenty of that, show, but, yeah, I, I get it was just a perk.
00;13;37;05 - 00;14;05;14
Casmira and Adam
It was just the whole thing from start to finish was like, just the best time of my. So it was. Yeah. No, it was good. It was, It was it was controversial, but it was funny. I enjoyed it while ago. Quite a ago. So have you always lived in South Australia? Yeah, yeah. Born here. And I've never, never moved.
00;14;05;17 - 00;14;32;01
Casmira
I'm very much a home body person. And I think one of the reasons why, I sort of started to realize that maybe I couldn't pursue a musical theater, particularly, like, in any really big way, felt like. Well, I felt like that, was because I didn't really want to move away, or go interstate, like, do, study interstate or anything like that.
00;14;32;01 - 00;15;10;01
Casmira
I just wanted to be near my family and in the city that I loved. So yeah, I've always been here. So what would you say? So, guys and dolls, as of, the moment where this is what you want to do. Me? When would have been the next big bang? Such. Okay, so, like, I guess I did a lot of, like, I did a lot of, stuff through school.
00;15;10;01 - 00;15;35;18
Casmira
And then, after school, I was trying to sort of figure out what I wanted to do. I was really pushed into, auditioning for the Conservatorium doing classical voice, which I guess anyone who knows me now would go, that's a weird thing for you to have been pushed into. Because I don't really sing anything like that anymore.
00;15;35;18 - 00;16;01;25
Casmira
Ever. But that was sort of the I was like, really pushed as a soprano singer in school and, and so I did audition for it, and I, I got in, but kind of by the skin of my teeth, like, they sort of said that my theory and aural training wasn't really up to scratch. And, that I needed to really work on it.
00;16;01;27 - 00;16;35;16
Casmira
And I felt incredibly out of my depth. And then also sort of found that I wasn't I didn't really enjoy the repertoire or anything like that, like it was just it was all very, very serious singing, you know, very not me. And so I've dropped out, pretty early in that, degree and, spent a little while trying to figure out what on earth I was going to do.
00;16;35;18 - 00;17;19;16
Casmira
And I auditioned for, I did audition for, the, I don't know what it's called now. Is AC Arts now? Yes. Yeah. Whatever AC Arts was at the time. I auditioned for that and didn't get in, and so I felt a little bit lost and ended up doing drama at Flinders. And loving that and then combining that with a teaching degree because by that point I had, I had sort of decided that I needed a, an option where I could make money and have some stability and stay in Adelaide and maybe still perform and maybe it was okay to have performing b b the thing that I had
00;17;19;16 - 00;17;38;06
Casmira
a passion for that I loved, that didn't necessarily have to pay the bills, you know, like it was something that I could do. And I think, like, I'm still really glad. I'm still really glad that I did that. I, I don't I feel like just knowing myself and knowing my personality that I, I don't think I could have done it any other way.
00;17;38;08 - 00;18;05;03
Casmira
And then lots of, lots of opportunities have kind of come my way that I didn't expect, but I, I studied. Yeah. So I did I did drama and is really loved it fell in love and had really serious relationship. And that also kind of kept me in Adelaide and then did audition for like community theater essentially, and took a long time with that as well.
00;18;05;04 - 00;18;29;13
Casmira
Like, I, I loved it and generally like nearly always just made it into the ensembles but didn't really have any kind of grand experience where I felt like something like something had happened that made me go like, this is what you meant to do or anything like that. And I guess it wasn't until I did this, I did this summer school program.
00;18;29;15 - 00;19;11;13
Casmira
It was called cabaret Summer school, and it was with Macy Carey and Catherine Campbell, and it Guy basically spent the week working on a set, a cabaret set, where you did ten minutes and you, you within that ten minutes, you maybe sang like three songs. And I wrote this set about how I was getting married. Because I was, that year, and I it was through that that like, it was like something clicked into place and I felt way more confident and certain in myself.
00;19;11;13 - 00;19;34;15
Casmira
And it was like I'd sort of figured out, I know how to put a song across. Like, I know how to act this and be a character. And, sort of. Anyway, like, I was always a work in progress, but it was like I just something matured in me and I had this really fantastic response to it.
00;19;34;17 - 00;20;08;10
Casmira
And like, my parents even sort of sat me down and said, you know, what you did then was special. And we think that you've got something, you know, and it was like it was just this vote of confidence that I didn't hadn't experienced since doing jazz. And I was back in Europe, you know. So it was that that sort of made me go, oh, I think, going on maybe not take it more seriously, but just put myself out there more, I guess, like audition for more things and do more stuff.
00;20;08;10 - 00;20;35;08
Casmira and Adam
And, I pretty much immediately from there started to get a few more opportunities and like, lead roles and things and, and, that. Yeah, I think I put a lot of, a lot of it down to that, that weight, like something, something that I learned or something that I did that week really changed me. I want to talk about your health, if you're okay.
00;20;35;10 - 00;20;58;19
Casmira and Adam
But to begin with, just just for the lay people out there, could you explain what parts is. Yeah. So how long are we got? Yeah. Because it's also it's tricky because my parts is actually secondary to some other stuff. Yeah. So I can explain that too. But oh. All right. Sweat for the dog barking. We can.
00;20;58;22 - 00;21;28;11
Casmira
Yeah. Okay. So. Yeah. So I have parts which is postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. And that basically what it means is that your body, for whatever reason, has trouble, circulating the blood around your body. And so when you, it tends to mean that when you stand up, you get very little blood to your brain and you can get really dizzy.
00;21;28;14 - 00;21;51;05
Casmira
And some people pass out, and it's, it's. Yeah, it's like a circulatory issue more than. Well, it's not even a circulatory issue. It's actually a, it's a, it's a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system. So they call it it's like a there's there's something called disorder nomi, which just means like dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system.
00;21;51;05 - 00;22;23;24
Casmira
And POTS is a type of disorder, anemia. So the reason it's a dysfunction, the autonomic nervous system, is because if you're having trouble getting the blood up to your brain, your autonomic nervous system kicks in with a kind of panic response. It like, yeah, it activates a sympathetic nervous system. And you get into fight or flight, pretty quick so that your heart starts pumping really fast so that you might get some blood up to your brain.
00;22;23;27 - 00;22;58;03
Casmira
So it ends up being a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system, because it's doing that a lot to try and regulate your, it, your, the blood and your, your heart rate and your, all the other autonomic functions. So the problem with that is that if you are constantly, in this sort of dis functioning autonomic state, you get lots of other issues.
00;22;58;09 - 00;23;25;02
Casmira
The main one being that it's just really freaking tiring, like, you, if you're always in, like, kind of this hyper aroused stress state, then you're going to crash and, have what most people with pots have, which is chronic fatigue. Because it is just really exhausting. And then the other problems, I guess, that kind of come with it.
00;23;25;04 - 00;23;47;23
Casmira
You get like the tachycardia. So, like, people with pots often have this racing heart feeling which can be really distressing because it feels a lot like having a panic attack or like a heart attack. Because your heart's just suddenly going insane and you don't really know why. And obviously people with pots can can faint a lot.
00;23;47;25 - 00;24;06;24
Casmira
Not everyone. It's not like a given. And everyone's got different sort of levels of severity, I guess. I don't faint very often, but I find sometimes, and that can be pretty dangerous because you know, you don't know when or where you're going to faint. And if you hit your head and stuff like that, that can be pretty dangerous.
00;24;06;26 - 00;24;42;16
Casmira
It can make it really hard to do exercise and things like that because you can, trigger the fatigue in a really big way. The heat can really badly impact it and things like that. And I guess the other thing that's kind of relevant for me is that, if you're having trouble getting blood around your body, then it also struggles to hit things like your vocal cords, which can make it suddenly really difficult to sing, which was a fun sort of discovery for me.
00;24;42;19 - 00;25;09;02
Casmira
But I guess I should also sort of clarify that, like, POTS is something that's like it's becoming more and more diagnosed now. It's not something that people really knew about or had heard of even sort of five years ago. But one of the reasons why it's becoming more and more prominent is because, basically they think long Covid is pots and pots is long Covid.
00;25;09;05 - 00;25;42;02
Casmira
They're like Covid is causing a lot of disorder autonomia in people. But that's not why I have it. Mine is caused by Covid. Mine is caused by, it's my body's sort of secondary to something called, Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, which for me is a dysfunction of the, connective tissue in my body. So I have, very bad connective tissue.
00;25;42;05 - 00;26;09;00
Casmira
And it affects my joints. It affects my, all my organ systems in my body because just about everything is made out of connective tissue. It affects my veins, and it affects my, like, digestive system and gut and stuff like that. So, the reason I have polyps is because my veins, don't, constrict like you're supposed to do.
00;26;09;00 - 00;26;27;12
Casmira
They don't like you supposed to get to this thing called my visa constriction, which pushes the blood up. But for me, instead of constricting my, my veins are kind of loose and lax, so they just kind of blow up like a balloon instead. And that's why I can't get the blood up to the top half of my body.
00;26;27;14 - 00;27;00;29
Casmira and Adam
And then that causes dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system. So that's a very long winded answer. Yes. You're dealing with a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah. And when did you feel you became aware that things weren't rocks? I remember I always remember a conversation, you you were having a bit of a event and of your frustration during another show we did together, Judge Jackie.
00;27;01;02 - 00;27;30;29
Casmira and Adam
Oh, gosh. What? And I loved doing that show. I miss that show so much. And you were just expressing your frustration over what's going on. And and I think you were, due to have your tonsils removed after, after that production. And you're hoping that that would, perhaps remedy some of the issues that you were experiencing? Yeah.
00;27;31;02 - 00;28;00;04
Casmira
And I think I was having a think I was talking to you about, and also saying, a vocal teacher, a therapist to, as well, but, but I think. Yeah. When, when you becoming aware this is not right, there's something wrong with my thought is not responding the way it should be. Responding. So I guess I've got another long answer for you.
00;28;00;04 - 00;28;22;06
Casmira
I'm sorry. You can edit it all out. Because it's it's it's happened in stages. I had a lot of very mysterious things go on with me from very young. And I was always one of. And I think that's one of the reasons why I've always felt a bit of an outsider and a bit strange, because just things with weird stuff had happened to me, and.
00;28;22;06 - 00;28;54;03
Casmira
And there never be any answer. And I like, you know, kind of, I wouldn't say uncoordinated, but just very injury prone and I because like a key hallmark of a syndrome is hypermobility. So I had hypermobile joints and that meant that I, I was really flexible, but I had absolutely no strength. And, I would always like I ran a little bit strange and did things a little bit strange, and I didn't really have a great sense of my body in space.
00;28;54;06 - 00;29;12;02
Casmira
And I do things like, you know, and my friends would just kind of be like, that's weird. What, what what is that? What was that about? Where I'd sort of just be standing up and then suddenly I'd be on the ground, and it's like I hadn't even taken a step and I'd fallen over somehow, and it was because my ankles would literally collapse under me, like they just weren't holding me up.
00;29;12;05 - 00;29;32;02
Casmira
And it was one of those things, like, you just didn't think anything of it. Like you just no one ever was like, let's take you to a doctor. And no doctor was ever. Even if I went to the doctor, no, a doctor ever was put, put, you know, two and two together or anything like that. Because it just wasn't like growing up.
00;29;32;02 - 00;29;49;00
Casmira
It just wasn't a, a diagnosis, like, it just wasn't something that you could you could have, you know, you just no one knew about it. And no one really thought about it. And I broke a lot of bones. So, like, I broke my collarbone when I was three, broke my ankle when I was seven. I broke my toe.
00;29;49;00 - 00;30;16;07
Casmira
I broke my ankle again. I broke my ankle three times. And then it's I was always sick as well. Like I was one of those people that just get sick constantly. And people would always just kind of roll their eyes and go, oh my God, she's sick again, you know? And and the I think the attitude was very much that I must be either sort of making it up, which wouldn't have been too much of a stretch for someone who was constantly putting on shows and loved a bit of drama and love to pretend like.
00;30;16;10 - 00;30;32;02
Casmira
I get why people sort of went there, but I found it really frustrating because it was really hard to convince people when I was in pain, why I wasn't sure why I was struggling, or why I didn't want to do PR and things like that, or, you know, like I tried really, really hard, you know, when you try really, really hard and you still fail.
00;30;32;04 - 00;31;02;06
Casmira
And that used to drive me insane. And another reason why I think the art was like my safe place, I guess, was because, sport and stuff was just not for me. And then. I, I think this is, that's basically the patent. Like that was the pattern right through to adulthood. Like there was never any kind of sense that it was something that was maybe going to be explained by some sort of overarching thing.
00;31;02;06 - 00;31;24;07
Casmira
It was much more just like I, just a bit shit, you know, like it was that sort of feeling I had for a long time. Clumsy, maybe a bit lazy, maybe just a bit. Not for this. Well, or a bit too sensitive for this world. You know, I, and then I started, I started with having the voice problems.
00;31;24;07 - 00;31;46;10
Casmira
So I would do a show and just pretty much inevitably lose my voice. And that was so distressing. Like, I just couldn't tell you where I went with that because it was like, why, why can't I do this? Why can everyone sort of do this? And I can't? And it would sort of started to become a pattern.
00;31;46;10 - 00;32;13;26
Casmira
So like where I started thinking, I know I'm just sick and everyone gets sick. And then it sort of happened again. And then it sort of happened again and again. And I just couldn't like it was this crazy making. But I was sort of getting tonsillitis a lot and I was getting this a lot. So, you know, sort of systematically try and work your way through what can I do, see an EMT, see the specialist, see that specialist.
00;32;13;28 - 00;32;43;13
Casmira
But I think I was 28, maybe 29, 28 when I saw a physio and I said, I'm getting an I can't remember what I was seeing the physio for. I was getting some sort of pain somewhere and he did a big sort of what's the word like work up, I guess, just looked at kind of my whole body and was the first person to say, have you heard of this?
00;32;43;15 - 00;33;14;15
Casmira
And he said, I want you to like he said, look it up when you get home, like do some reading about it. And it was Alice Down syndrome. And he said, I just, I think that you might have it, but I can't diagnose you. I just see it in three. And I got home, I think, and just spent like the next week reading everything that I could and was just like, oh my God, oh my, everything sort of started to make sense.
00;33;14;15 - 00;33;42;11
Casmira
And including some of the mental health struggles that I've been having as well. It all connected. And at that point I was very focused on the musculoskeletal stuff. So, it didn't really like I didn't really have an explanation for my voice, but it just sort of explained, like the chronic pain and the injuries and sort of why I was so kind of a bit like a, like, awkward donkey.
00;33;42;13 - 00;34;10;11
Casmira
But lot was stuff. But then it started, I sort of started uncovering that there were, co-morbidities that came along with it, like parts like something else called MCUs, which is mast cell activation syndrome. Another one called gastroparesis, which I have since been diagnosed with and oh, painted this really complex but sort of clear picture as like, I hadn't understand.
00;34;10;11 - 00;34;35;01
Casmira
I had a reason why things were the way they were. And then, just to kind of just to keep going with a really long story, I, I got pregnant, and by then I'd been diagnosed with, less demos, but again, it was very much focused on the musculoskeletal stuff. So like, managing the pregnancy was very much about, like, how do I keep my joints in place?
00;34;35;01 - 00;35;17;15
Unknown
Because, you're really, really parental dislocation. And so, there was a lot of physio and a lot of like using, straps and things to kind of hold my hips together and my knees together and, and and all this kind of stuff. But after I gave birth to my daughter, I, like absolutely fell apart, like, just the, the chronic fatigue and the, the, dizziness and the palpitations and the, and, the struggle that I had to just get up and get going and do anything became really, really clear.
00;35;17;17 - 00;35;39;16
Casmira
And I had to go back when I went back to work after I had about 15 months off and I went back to work and I could not get through a day, it was just excruciating. And I went and got diagnosed with POTS. And by then, you know, it's really interesting because we like we had nothing like this five years ago.
00;35;39;16 - 00;36;03;24
Casmira
But by then we've got this entire clinic set up in Adelaide, and it's the only place, I think, in Australia that has a, this research clinic and this entire sort of clinic set up for Pots and also diagnosing people with Ehlers Danlos to help people manage it and sort of understand it and, and things like that. So, I was just so lucky as well to just be in Adelaide.
00;36;03;27 - 00;36;34;20
Adam and Casmira
Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Thank you. I know the struggles you've had with your health in the last few years. In a couple of cases, first hand. I remember when we worked on I Love You. You're perfect. Now, change that. I had the great pleasure of directing you in and the journey you went through with that.
00;36;34;23 - 00;37;17;26
Adam and Casmira
And and the the glorious performance when you were innocently picking up a mic stand and and and throat through your shoulder out, as in the process. That was able, to, to sort of I didn't hear anything, but yes, apparently there was some thank for words choice words said in the wings, apparently from you. Also seeing you recently in your show, you know, wonderful show, hole and dystopia.
00;37;17;29 - 00;37;46;15
Adam and Casmira
And I had the great fortune of saying wasn't the last show you're doing, but, what's what's but it was quite emotional for you and, and and speaking to afterwards, you were telling me how it was sort of. You're at that sort of juncture. So where do I go from here? Well, what can I do? From here.
00;37;46;15 - 00;38;12;13
Adam and Casmira
But. So I was just wondering, how are you moving on from this? It's so I it's so fraught. I think I've been in that many situations now. And you can attest to this because you and you've been there for just about all of it. You saw what happened to me and Violet and you and and how illness kind of affected me then.
00;38;12;15 - 00;38;30;14
Casmira
And then. Yeah. Judge Jackie, the judge Jackie was one of those rare shows that sort of seemed to go off without too much of a hitch for me, but it doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't happen often. Couldn't believe what happened with all of you. Perfect. Now change just to give the context. Like I was struggling so much with my voice and illness through that show.
00;38;30;14 - 00;38;54;27
Casmira
And then that came to the performances and I was like, nah, I'm good. I can get through this, I'm fine. And then my shoulder goes down. I've dislocated my shoulder, 11 times. But that was only the third time by the time that happened. And what I think it was, it was such a shock because, the two times that I'd done it beforehand, it had popped out and popped straight back in.
00;38;54;29 - 00;39;08;24
Casmira
And so that was the first time I'd ever done a show where my shoulder had come out and stayed out. And I don't know how well you remember this, but it was the day that there was like a super storm in Adelaide as well, and I had to wait for that ambulance for like 2.5 hours with my shoulder out of its socket.
00;39;08;24 - 00;39;39;06
Casmira
And I just like I could not describe to you, the pain that that caused and then just the pain of like, the pain that I guess there's the emotional part of it is that, I guess something that I really, really pride myself on was having was, was, well, what I wanted to create for myself was it was was a reputation that was based on being good to work with.
00;39;39;06 - 00;39;56;16
Casmira
I want it to be good to work with. I want it to be consistent. I want it to be dedicated. I took it seriously, and I loved it. And I like, you know, and I want it to be someone that people asked back, you know, like, she was really great to work with. Like to work with her again.
00;39;56;16 - 00;40;20;28
Casmira
You know, that was something that really, really mattered to me. And it mattered to me for a few reasons. Like, I want it to obviously be a good person to work with and, and b be a nice person to be around for its own sake, but also because because if you love something, you want to have opportunities to do it more and more and you don't want to create any sort of situation where people don't want to work with you.
00;40;20;28 - 00;40;54;24
Casmira
And, and what I would kept on finding is that same sort of thing, which was that I work no matter what I did. I sort of felt like I failed because my body just caused a situation. Even if my work ethic and my drive and my passion and my talent and stuff didn't say, like, I kept on feeling like people had to deal with all this drama that I created completely without any intention of, creating it.
00;40;54;24 - 00;41;37;28
Casmira
So, like, I think I love your perfect now change is the perfect example of that because he has made just doing everything I possibly can sort of make sure the show can go on and then my show that just comes out of its socket and suddenly the show stops. Like, I've never been in a show where we've had to literally stop the show because we always have that thing where the show must go on and and it was modifying and it was, frustrating and you get to a point where you feel like you just can't do that to people anymore, or to yourself, like the, the sheer, I guess, the stress and
00;41;37;28 - 00;42;18;18
Casmira
the panic and the emotional rollercoaster of it. You just get to a point where you're like, maybe I'm just too tired to keep going through this, but you're also dealing with the fact that the payoff is so great, like when you when you get through it and you do it and you feel like you do a really good job, and you get that sense because it's that miraculous kind of moment that you get sometimes where you think, I'm doing the thing that I was meant to do, like, you click into this space that is, I guess, like some people might call it flow or whatever, where you just become something else.
00;42;18;18 - 00;42;46;24
Casmira
So you take it somewhere else. That feels so important. And I think with performance, probably more than anything else that you can do, you've got that amazing ability to connect with people. That feels really special. So you get that awful thing where you go, I went through this hell to get here, but maybe it was worth it.
00;42;46;26 - 00;43;26;22
Casmira
Was it worth it? And I think that's where I'm at. Where it's like, I don't know how to stop, but I don't know how to keep going. And it's about working that through, I guess. How do I create the scenarios where I'm taking care of myself? I'm being really transparent, I guess, with what I'm capable of and not trying not to close the door to never doing it again.
00;43;26;25 - 00;43;30;11
Casmira
So like one.
00;43;30;14 - 00;44;03;00
Casmira
One thing for me, I think that's probably, pretty clear. It's like auditioning for shows like auditioning for, say, community theater or the semi like semiprofessional might be different because I think they kind of run like, you can run things a bit differently, but shows where I feel like there's a lot of pressure on me and there's not a lot of flexibility.
00;44;03;02 - 00;44;30;15
Casmira
I don't think I can do you know, these are the rehearsal times, these where you have you have to do it, in this way and in this sort of format. I just feel too terrified that I'm going to be the cause of of too much stress and pain for people, but shows where I can maybe have a bit more control over the situation.
00;44;30;21 - 00;44;51;20
Casmira
I think, may may make life a bit easier. Said. Like Dave and I, working on dystopia together was one of the great joys of my life because, we could sort of we could set the parameters, we could sort of decide when we were going to rehearse, when we weren't going to rehearse. Do we need to do this?
00;44;51;20 - 00;45;20;10
Casmira
No, we don't really need to do this. I trust you, you trust me. And having some control over when we perform, how often we perform, that sort of thing. And then, of course, that didn't necessarily work out because you're artists and you have to work within a system. So like when the venue tells you that they've got these terms available, you go, okay, and then you end up performing at 10:00 at night and realizing that that was really a bad idea.
00;45;20;13 - 00;45;45;14
Casmira
So I'm not I'm not like quite across it yet, but I think that there's, there's ways forward and I think it's about having a bit more creative control. How much can I conceivably work, how how many hours a week can I work, and how much do I actually have to rest and build in that rest and accept that rest is a part of my life now because I am very, very bad at it?
00;45;45;16 - 00;46;40;07
Casmira
I like sorry about it. It I think, yeah. Trying to go, okay. So singing really matters to me. It really it's really powerful and important for me and my mental health. But when I put that level of pressure on me to be able to sing right there and then after loads of rehearsal and after a week of, of tech and then, you know, with an audience in front of me, maybe for my own mental health, that's not a good idea, but maybe singing I don't want so, you know, event like, like a Broadway sessions or something like that, or singing songs that, just really reasonable and easy to achieve no matter
00;46;40;07 - 00;47;11;16
Casmira
what the circumstances. And just singing for joy. I'm much more is just kind of where I have to be now. Thank you. I know this has been it's a difficult thing to talk about. So I'm really appreciate you sharing that with me. But for now, I'm good. He's fine. Good. He said it. Five. Ha! That was very good.
00;47;11;16 - 00;47;51;05
Casmira
I like that he kept in the laughter. Yeah I couldn't I wasn't clever enough to eat out my laughter. No. Yeah. Add something. So if you were to write a book. What would it be about? Oh my gosh. I have written a book. I've actually got this decent I, I shouldn't, I did this very silly thing where I did this, wrote a whole lot of poetry, and, I did it as part of this, online challenge that, if you like, wrote a certain amount of poetry in a set amount of days that publish a book.
00;47;51;08 - 00;48;07;20
Casmira
So I actually have, like, a published poetry book floating around out. You can get it on anyway. Yeah, but I don't I don't talk about it because it's not good. It's. Well, I mean, I don't hate it, but I, it's not like, it's not like I actually got a book published. It's like a, it's very like you have to have a good.
00;48;07;26 - 00;48;32;21
Adam and Casmira
Yeah, yeah. You're a published author. It but I yeah, I have a nice pen and that's what I was in that budget myself. But yeah, like, I, I mean, if I wasn't, if I look, I feel very passionately about, advocating for people with chronic illness. That's one thing, I think that I've turned into that sort of person because of my experiences.
00;48;32;23 - 00;48;52;15
Casmira
So, like, that might be something that I'd write about, navigating that and, and stuff. But I honestly, I, I'm a huge. Yeah. Like, like we said at the beginning of the, of the chat, like I'm a huge nerd. And something I also me huge nerd about is, poetry. And I love writing it and I love reading it.
00;48;52;15 - 00;49;10;02
Casmira
And I would write heaps more and I would love to publish it properly. Watch the space. Yeah. Poetic thoughts from Kashmir.
00;49;10;04 - 00;49;36;06
Casmira
Yeah. The working title with my working title is. Yeah, yeah. It's needs a little bit tweaking. I was just, I was just riffing. So I think we probably captured this, but I'm going to ask anyway, what event changed your perspective on life? And it is going to be the one. It could be an event, could be a few.
00;49;36;08 - 00;49;58;28
Casmira
I guess we yeah, we've sort of covered. I see things as me, as a performer. I think two big things that have happened in my life, I guess, is that I've had, pretty significant breakup, as I said, which was shattering, like a really shattering experience. That I think really changed me as a person.
00;49;59;00 - 00;50;25;10
Casmira
And I think one of the things that it did to me was, and this is going to sound really I think it's going to sound bad. I don't think it is bad, but it sort of changed my perspective on love and relationships in the sense that I think I learned that, love is not necessarily enough, that you can love someone and you can't be with them.
00;50;25;12 - 00;50;42;18
Casmira
And, and I found that really shattering to my worldview, I guess, because I was a real romantic. And I think I had this sense that once you're with someone that you love, you with them forever. And I have parents that have been together for like 40 years and still just as in love with each other as they have learned.
00;50;42;20 - 00;51;04;09
Casmira
So I think that felt really dramatic to me. It sort of really changed how I think about people and love and relationships and also just this idea that you can love lots of people in lots of really different ways. And then I guess the other really big event I have to mention is the birth of my child, because that is enough to change anyone and it changes the molecular level.
00;51;04;09 - 00;51;38;02
Casmira
I think, I am a mother now and that that becomes the big love of your life and I think also does does link back to a conversation because I think that I have a lot more I like. And again, this is probably going to sound worse than I mean it to be, but like, I think that you can have a lot less care for yourself.
00;51;38;04 - 00;52;28;03
Casmira
But when you have a child, you kind of realize that you you have to do things the right way for them, which means that you've got to look after you and find ways to to make it, make it through the really difficult stuff. Yeah. So that that notion of kind of priority prioritizing yourself for, because you're prioritizing them became a big shift, I think in my thinking because I couldn't like run myself into the ground like I always did, and I had to take care of my mental health as well, because she deserves a mother who's present and capable and and available for her.
00;52;28;05 - 00;53;01;15
Casmira
Yeah, yeah. Oh. Well done. Now, this is something we did. You've kind of mentioned a few times, so I'd be interested in your response if you weren't afraid of failure, what would you do differently? How do you define failure as well? That's such a good question. That is a good question. Like in my mind, I immediately go, does that mean that I can I would be able to do anything like, oh yeah, and nothing would go wrong.
00;53;01;18 - 00;53;35;17
Casmira
Yeah. That's what I'm thinking, because I'm sure that that's something that that you, you know, you use the term yourself, that you feel like you're letting the team down, you're letting people down, you're letting yourself downs. But if that wasn't that wasn't a consideration. You didn't have to worry about that at all. What would you do? You honestly, I think the first thing my I mean, the first place my I went was, oh my God, I would, I would just do all of the shows and be and all the things and audition for all the things, you know, you couldn't you couldn't fail, you know, however you define that.
00;53;35;17 - 00;53;59;06
Casmira
But I think honestly, probably the thing that I would want to do more than anything is like where I'm at right now is that I want to write things and I want to put on the things that I write, and I would I feel like the that's really scary for different reasons. Doing dystopia had all of the benefits of us being able to have creative control over it.
00;53;59;06 - 00;54;24;07
Casmira
But of course, you're putting something that you've written out into the world that you have no idea if anyone's going to like. So I just kind of knew that whatever I wrote, people were going to receive really well. Then I would just write and write and write and, and and produce it and do it because I, I don't think I've ever had more fun than writing silly, silly comedy shows with my best friend.
00;54;24;07 - 00;54;55;11
Casmira
Yeah, that's really what I if I could just spend my life doing that, I think that's what I'd do. Reserve a seat for me. Okay, I'll do it. What song would make the best theme music for you? Oh my God, I have to think about that. But if you're doing what? If you imagine yourself, you're in World Federation wrestling fights, introduce your opponent, and then I go and over to the left corner we have Kashmir Lord.
00;54;55;11 - 00;55;01;25
Casmira
And then your music would be playing really slow ballad like.
00;55;01;27 - 00;55;25;13
Casmira
I realized the other day was so funny. I've been doing, I've directed the year 12 production at my school and was like going through the music on my iPhone to try and come up with like some songs to play in the show and realize that I just had nothing, nothing upbeat. Like, I don't listen to any songs with like A Higher Baby and then like Let It Be, I guess.
00;55;25;16 - 00;55;50;24
Casmira
Everything I listen to is slow. Oh my God, I, I don't know, I think. Is it like, do you mean sort of a song that sort of matches with me and my personality? Or do you mean a song that, like, I really identify with like that I should just a song that I love. Yeah, sure. That easily.
00;55;50;26 - 00;56;10;11
Casmira
I have a lot of songs that I go, this is my song, I have. I actually like going back to the tattoo conversation I have. I've literally got Let It Be, tattooed on my wrist. Because I think that might be a perfect song. I love the Beatles and, I love that song. And I think that's the song that I always listen to when I need, when I need it.
00;56;10;14 - 00;56;44;04
Casmira
I also like an absolutely obsessed with, Queen. And I think Bohemian Rhapsody is like probably most people's song, you know, like that is the perfect song. But there's this, this song that I, I love and it's called, I hope there's someone and it's by, well, it was by a, trans artist actually called Anohni. They used to go by, Antony the Johnsons.
00;56;44;06 - 00;57;09;05
Casmira
So when they released the song, that was Antony the Johnsons. But they're known as Anohni now. And it is this, like they have just the most stunning voice. So it's like, layered and with vibrato. So some people hate it because there's just too much vibrato in it. But I love it, because there's something so emotional about it.
00;57;09;12 - 00;57;40;04
Casmira
And the song. Yeah, it's called Hope. There's someone and it's, it's really just about hoping that there'll be someone with you when you die. And I know that sounds really dark, but I think that that's probably all I want. And all anyone wants is just. I think it goes back to connection. Like, I just everything that I do, I just want to have one person who's, someone that I can connect to.
00;57;40;07 - 00;58;05;27
Casmira
So I'll go with that. That's good. You should listen to, because it's not going to listen to it. Now, the only now last question. Yeah, you've done well. You've lost it. Well, this one probably be very straightforward because we're pretty well covered, I think. What brings you the most joy? Well, like these days, it's probably my daughter.
00;58;05;29 - 00;58;41;03
Casmira
Yeah, just. She's very funny. She's very funny. She's very sassy. She's very smart, and she's very, creative. And I think it just everything else is complicated and fraught, and she is pure and easy to get joy from, no matter what, and can make me smile regardless. So it doesn't matter what what mood I'm in. And I will still say singing because singing really does do that for me.
00;58;41;10 - 00;58;58;09
Casmira
If I can get myself into the headspace where it doesn't matter what I do and it doesn't matter really what comes out of my mouth as long as I get the feeling that that singing brings me. So yeah, that would probably be. But my daughter first and singing second.
00;58;58;12 - 00;59;22;24
Casmira and Adam
Tik Tok okay, thank you, thank you, thank you so much Casmira. That was really interesting having such. It was really challenging. Could you got me thinking really hard about things that I haven't really articulated before. So that's really. Well, you came up with any answers you made just so very vulnerable. And I really appreciate that. And, thank you.
00;59;22;24 - 00;59;55;05
Casmira and Adam
And yeah, you too. So lovely to talk to you. See you. Bye. And that was Casmira. Thank you, Casmira, for sharing your story. It was really insightful and, really interesting. And, I really loved what you had to say about your journey and something I'm sure a lot of people can relate to. And very honest.
00;59;55;08 - 01;00;22;27
Julie
And obviously, it's something that still has an impact on her and, as well. So. Yeah. And something that she's still working through and working with. So it was lovely that she could feel, be so honest in that interview. And it's something that I hope everyone can, at least reach out and talk to.
01;00;22;27 - 01;00;43;09
Julie
So on. If, if they're going through something similar because it is, very difficult. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just the whole process of, you know, diagnosis and all of that, it was. Yeah, such a hard thing to do. But, I mean, she knows what she's working with now, which is great, but, and now she's just finding a new reality, isn't it?
01;00;43;09 - 01;01;11;19
Julie and Adam
Just trying to work out what your parameters are, what you can do, what you can't do. So, yeah. No, that was that was a really compelling story. So thank you to her. I'm sure everyone will love her. So, there is, avenues of being able to access information, particularly, regarding Pots, as Casmira said in an interview, there are websites around now, that can be helpful.
01;01;11;21 - 01;01;30;26
Adam and Julie
If you have any questions or queries. As always, you can contact singularproductions@bigpond.com, my name's Adam and thank you Julie, as always. Okay. Thank you, thank you Julie. Thank you Adam.
01;01;30;29 - 01;01;55;08
Adam and Julie
I'm talking about ourselves in the third person. Now. Thank you for joining us, everyone. And, look forward to speaking to you again very soon. Bye bye.