For Episode 3 of 'The Struggling Artist – Creative Resilience', I talk with Deborah Caddy - singer, performer, producer, and good friend. How does an introvert become a performer? What’s it like to perform in a show eight times a week for an extended period? How does a performer stay relevant in a competitive industry? Deborah and I discuss these questions and more.
Deborah is an Adelaide-based classical soprano, who regularly transcends the worlds of opera and music theatre.
She recently spent 2 years performing in the World tour of The Phantom of the Opera as an ensemble member and Madame Giry cover. Prior to this she spent 2 years performing in the Australasian tour of The Phantom of the Opera for Really Useful Company/Gordon Frost Organisation as an ensemble swing performer, and Madame Giry cover (2007-2009), and she toured in the Asian production of the same show, which saw her working in South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore (2005-2007; 2012-2015). She also performed in Phantom from 1994-1998 for Cameron Mackintosh in their Australasian tour.
She first sang with State Opera of South Australia in the 1990s, and since then she has performed various roles, covers and chorus plots.
Deborah is also a member of The Adelaide Vocal Project who most notably performed the trilogy of Philip Glass’ ‘Portrait Operas’, from 2002-2007, including Satyagraha, (where she played Gandhi’s secretary Miss Schlesen), Einstein on the Beach and Akhnaten.
Deborah is also a busy concert performer. She has been soloist with the ASO on a number of occasions (including Symphony in the Serengeti at Monarto Zoological Park) and she has been a regular soloist with The Adelaide Male Voice Choir.
With her producing partner, Adam Goodburn, Deborah formed SINGular Productions, a local Adelaide-based performing group in order to create new and exciting performing opportunities. They have produced a number of shows to date,(I Love You, You;re Perfect, Now Change; Elegies - A Song Cycle; It's a Dad Thing, the Musical; Different Fields; What is This Thing Called Love?), and they are currently developing a completely new opera based on the novel "Time's Long Ruin" by Adelaide author Stephen Orr.
https://www.deborahcaddysinger.com/about-adelaide-singer
email: debcaddy@gmail.com
Adam
This episode deals with topics concerning mental health. If you find any of this podcast triggering, please call lifeline on 131114. If you're in Australia or your local mental health provider.
00;00;20;12 - 00;00;45;26
Adam
Welcome to the struggling artist's creative resilience. My name is Adam Goodburn, and I've gone on a journey of discovery, talking to people about the highs and lows in their lives and how they continue to move forward positively. This podcast approaches the topic with an autistic performance framework, but could easily apply to all walks of life with struggling artists 100% independent, no ads and no sponsors.
Adam
The show is also totally free for anyone who wants to listen. If you're interested in supporting the struggling artists, there is one main way you can leave a review on your podcast app of choice or otherwise help spread the word. The struggling artist has traveled pretty far, almost entirely on word of mouth, so if you have any friends who you think might like it, don't be shy with your recommendations.
Adam
Welcome to the struggling artists creative resilience with Adam Goodburn and Julie Goodburn. Hi. How are you going? Did that sound too commercial? Yeah, for you're being silly. I think deadly serious. Yeah, but, you know, I never know when you are serious out of that space and still haven't worked it out after all these years. Well guess what.
Adam and Julie
Really. What. Adam. We have another guest. Yay. Yay. Awesome. I suppose you want to know who that is. Yeah. That would be helpful. Okay. Well, the guest for this interview is Deborah. Katie. Deb, your other wife. So people who don't know, let's say, explain stuff and explain that statement for a moment. It's just that I work.
00;02;08;07 - 00;02;26;29
Adam and Julie
I've worked a lot with Deb. Yes, yes. So she's not my other wife? Yes, but our youngest daughter used to think that she was trying to take her away from me because she worked within so much and she was little. But there was also. Did she say I love you? You're perfect. Now change for show that I did with dad.
00;02;27;00 - 00;02;49;10
Adam and Julie
No, no. Oh, it's just funny. Well, maybe she saw the photo of me and Jacob. When? And because for those listening, there's a scene in the show where, we're kind of pretend to be, getting married, and that that image, I think, stuck in my heart. It was. Yes, but she was very little. So. So tell me about you.
00;02;49;17 - 00;03;24;06
Adam and Julie
Okay. I'm going to tell you about Deb. So she is a performer who regularly transcends the world of opera and music theater. So just a little bit of a few stats. She's, performed in The Phantom of the opera. As an ensemble member and, as Madame Geary cover. And she's so with that she was part of the Australasian tour and, and she's toured Asian production of the same show and saw her work in South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore.
00;03;24;08 - 00;03;59;12
Adam
And she also had performed in Phantom from 1994 to 1998 for Cameron Mackintosh in their Australian Australian Australasian tour. She's she's been singing with stand up herself Australia's since the early 1990s and has performed various roles and covers and chorus plots, and she's also a member of the Adelaide Vocal Project, who most notably performed the trilogy of Philip Glass's portrait operas from 2002 to 2, funny and I.
00;03;59;13 - 00;04;33;00
Aam
I was, and she played Gandhi's secretary, Miss Schlesinger. And she was also involved in Einstein on the Beach and Akhenaten. And Deborah is also a busy concert performer. She has been a soloist with the Aso on a number, and that's the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra, for a number of occasions. And she has been a regular soloist with the Adelaide Male Voice Choir and all this and she's also been involved with Singular Productions, which is something that I've been a part of as well.
00;04;33;02 - 00;04;54;29
Adam
And together we've put on some productions like what we've mentioned. I love your perfect now change, Elegies, The Song Cycle, It's a Dead Thing, musical, Different Fields, and also a cabaret show. What is This Thing Called Love? So that's very, very much Deborah in a nutshell. If Deborah was actually in a nutshell, it's more of a coconut show actually.
00;04;54;29 - 00;05;11;18
Adam and Julie
Yeah. And I think all of that would fit in. And if Deborah was actually in a nutshell, she'd be going help Kenny out of his nutshell. Definitely a coconut. It might be even something bigger. But anyway, I can't think of anything else right now. No, she's she's done so much. And one of you really wanting to hear what?
00;05;11;24 - 00;05;33;05
Adam
And one thing that I really wanted to talk to her about was because and this is a bit of a selfish curiosity on my part, was what's it like working on a long term production and having not experienced that myself? I've always been fascinated, and it's always been some sort of weird goal in my head. Not so much nowadays.
00;05;33;08 - 00;06;01;21
Adam
But I remember, earlier on it was kind of sort of, you I felt this was sort of these made a if you've got involved in a, long running production. So we do talk a little bit about that. So right now to start the interview with Deborah, Katie, looking forward to hearing you.
00;06;01;24 - 00;06;29;08
Adam
Deborah Caddy, can I call you. Did you can call me to Welcome. Thank you. So yes, to the listeners, we've been I've been spending wasting a lot of time trying to get the sound just the way I want to. And I'm not a sound technician. And if anyone's out there who goes, oh, I really like what you're doing, Adam.
00;06;29;10 - 00;06;59;18
Adam
And I'd like to be able to fix up your issues with sound. So it's just you. Well, you can think of my other issues, too. That would be a bonus. And if you live in the Adelaide area, that would be really handy to, unless you're really clever and can sort of post production at us. Like, I know what really cool podcast is, do send me a message via my email Singular Productions at Big Popcorn.
00;06;59;21 - 00;07;31;09
Adam
There you go. I'll say that a few more times as we go along. Welcome. So we're at my place outside, so we're getting the ambiance of crickets, birds, and next door neighbor's air conditioning system. So. But I thought I didn't want to subject Deb to to the downstairs cave. Yeah. So refreshing. So hopefully the the background noise isn't too annoying for listeners.
00;07;31;11 - 00;08;09;22
Deborah
So. When did performing find you? Well, Adam, I was always a singer as a little girl. Like, in my house and not in public. Ever. Because I was very shy. But I used to love to sing and would sing all day, every day. And then as I got to being a teenager, I was going to church and there was some, some girls around that had started this kind of female singing group, and I just happened to be friends with those people, and they invited me to join.
00;08;09;22 - 00;08;34;23
Deborah
So that was my first kind of performance experience, was singing with a group of six, six girls singing songs for church events and things like that. So still I could hover in the background. There was no, you know, there was no big bright light on me or anything. And then, I continued to love singing and people continue to, in the church, continue to encourage me to do something about it.
00;08;34;23 - 00;09;02;24
Deborah
And so then I think actually feeling like I was actually performing and really happened after I started having singing lessons with Ray cocking, who was my first singing teacher, and she. Good place to start. Yeah, good place to start. And she could see that I was shy and and that I love to sing, but I was, not confident performing and and so she suggested that I go and audition for an amateur musical, and I did that.
00;09;02;24 - 00;09;30;05
Deborah
And the first musical I ever did was The King and I up at the Hills. And that that really, I'd never been in a production on stage before, and that really set something alight in me. I was still shy. I was still, you know, nowhere near approaching front and center. But I could see that there was there was something about this that I really wanted to continue with.
00;09;30;05 - 00;10;14;19
Deborah
So and that that was my first little taste. And that's, that's where I got the bug and I and continued on from there. So was it a battle with your shyness? Yeah, I still am shy, to be honest, but the the love and the joy that I found when I was actually singing, like producing this song and producing the sound and, and later on, as I developed more skills, like learning how to tell the story and things like that, that that was something that just gave me such a buzz, and I had to work so much on all of the confidence and all the other aspects that went along with it, but I was really
00;10;14;21 - 00;10;40;19
Deborah
comfortable and and happy singing, and then I just had to deal with trying to, build up my confidence and my skills and and my bravery and yeah, it was it's quite an interesting thing to think that that, someone like me who was so shy, so shy that I would hide behind my mother's skirts when we'd go to church and things when I was little.
00;10;40;20 - 00;11;13;14
Deborah
Like, I just didn't want to be seen by anybody. But to think that someone that was that shy could actually, you know, years, years, years later, perform on stage under a spotlight in front of hundreds to thousands of people and people that know me, they they know and know me when I was a child cannot believe that I have done, you know, I have performed on stages as as I have done because they know they know that a little girl so yeah, I don't know.
00;11;13;14 - 00;11;41;26
Deborah
I think it was just building slowly, slowly, slowly building confidence and, building skill and and embracing. I realized I wanted to tell a story. So. And by telling a story, I wasn't being me. I was being somebody else. I was being a character. And when when I could hide behind a character that gave me some freedom to break away from my shy self and be some other person, that's that's what I found.
00;11;41;26 - 00;12;07;13
Deborah
Anyway. Were you aware of when you're performing of that China? So as you say, you became someone else? Initially I was very aware of it. Like I remember in that first production I did, I was working in a laboratory, and I invited all these people from my work to come and see my show. And I was like an, an Amazon, a god.
00;12;07;13 - 00;12;26;29
Deborah
So I don't even know that there is such a thing in the king. And I normally. But they had three of us that just stood up the back and and we weren't we weren't wives who were children. We were just standing at the back. And occasionally we'd sing a song. And I remember knowing that the performance that my work colleagues were at, just like I spent the whole of their performance trying not to.
00;12;27;01 - 00;12;48;09
Deborah
I had to bite my lip because I was just so aware that they were out there watching me, and I just had to sort of like, so I didn't have any sense of character then. That was something that it took a while to sort of really develop that. But other instances when I first started singing, like I would easily get, you know, have a friend in the audience that were like, give me a thumbs up of encouragement.
00;12;48;09 - 00;13;10;00
Deborah
And I would I would break my concentration and just like, go back into myself and forget that I was, you know, singing a song. I'd just be me again, being shy. Me. So I sort of like, you know, had to build in some resilience and building some confidence and courage and yeah, that all took a long time. Did you study singing formally like a university?
00;13;10;00 - 00;13;44;02
Deborah
And the, no. Well, yes, yes and no. I was having my private lessons with Ray cooking, and after about five years with her, she went into the Elder Conservatorium as a vocal teacher there. And so she encouraged me to come and audition for the the single studies program so that I could continue working with her, so I did I got into the single studies program at the older Conservatorium, and I continued having lessons with her.
00;13;44;02 - 00;14;08;22
Unknown
And then a couple of years later, I, transferred over to reality. But so I did about three years of single studies and that was the I didn't do it. I didn't do any formal degree, just, single studies and then private lessons for the rest of my time. So how did you get from amateur musical, what happened next?
00;14;08;25 - 00;14;43;05
Deborah
So I got into the opera company in State Opera in 1991. I think I just did a general audition and and got into the chorus. I don't, I think the first year I basically just did a chorus concert and some supernumerary work in Rigoletto, because there was no female chorus in that. But the next year I got into Madame Butterfly, so I did that for, yeah, 3 or 4 years before I went on to doing professional musical theater.
00;14;43;08 - 00;15;08;16
Deborah
And what made you sort of go from, I just have an interest in singing makes me feel good to sort of I want to try out for sort of more professional work. I think in that time as well, I had gone from being the Amazon up the bat, biting her lip to actually starting to put my hand up for smaller roles and then larger roles in amateur musicals.
00;15;08;19 - 00;15;41;13
Deborah
So, and this is just a slowly building up my confidence and building up my skills and working on my singing and, and so I think at the time that I auditioned for the State Opera, I was doing lead roles in amateur musicals, and I was and I think at the time, also my right coaching my singing teacher would have encouraged me to audition when she saw that the opera company was auditioning for chorus members, and at the time, I thought, I'd love to.
00;15;41;16 - 00;16;10;11
Deborah
You sort of, you know, add that string to my bow, do some professional singing work. And that was a big drawcard. Yeah, just be surrounded by just be in a professional singing workplace and telling the part of the story that I still had to tell wouldn't be the wouldn't be the lead, but it would be someone in the village or someone in the court, you know, like adding their bit to the story.
00;16;10;17 - 00;16;38;09
Deborah
So that was the impetus for that. So around this time, were you sort of thinking I could go career with this or was not not in your head? No, not not with opera. I kind of I wasn't dedicated enough. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't doing the degree course I wasn't, you know, between lessons sometimes I wouldn't practice very much.
00;16;38;09 - 00;17;03;21
Deborah
And I had a, have had and have a number of flaws in my opera voice, like, it's not it's not perfectly technical. You know, there's plenty of other people that were very dedicated and, and going overseas and doing this and doing that. And I was like, well, that's not really me. But in the at the same time, I was also going into state to do auditions for, professional musicals.
00;17;03;21 - 00;17;26;08
Deborah
So and at the time they, they would come to South Australia and they would do a whole Australia wide circuit of auditions. So the, the big companies would come to Adelaide, they have a, they'd have a two week or one week block, probably not even one week block of, auditions for local people. And then they'd go away to Perth and then they do it over there.
00;17;26;10 - 00;17;45;15
Deborah
And when that didn't happen, if it was another musical that didn't do that, then I would go to Melbourne or Sydney and audition to to get in because, yeah, musicals were, were something that I really could understand. It was all in English, you know, I could get the story. I knew, I knew what story I was trying to tell.
00;17;45;18 - 00;18;12;22
Deborah
Whereas in opera, sometimes I can't access the languages that well, and sometimes I, I get the gist of what I'm doing and I get the gist of the story, but I don't always understand exactly what I'm singing or saying. Yeah. So I disconnect with some of the opera stuff that I've done. So was Phantom your first professional music theater gig?
00;18;12;24 - 00;18;28;07
Deborah
It was when was this? I started, that in 1994. I had, just to put that in context as well, like I'd done.
00;18;28;10 - 00;18;59;11
Deborah
3 or 4 professional, like, miss auditions and gotten nowhere. I'd done 3 or 4 already, 3 or 4 professional phantom auditions and got nowhere and before I did my final audition where I was, I was given the job. I was flown over to Sydney or Melbourne a few months before that because someone had pulled out and they were after someone thereafter, someone in the ensemble that would cover Christine.
00;18;59;13 - 00;19;17;18
Deborah
And I was like, well, that's not me, because I don't do ballet and I can't sing those high notes. But I went and I sang whatever I had to sing. And of course I didn't get the position, but I think because there were only a handful of people that went and did that audition, by the time it came to my next audition, I was more front and center.
00;19;17;18 - 00;19;50;07
Deborah
In their minds, they knew who I was. They'd only just heard me, and I was going for something else. I was going, I was going for a swing position, so. Yeah. And and when I actually did get the call up, someone had dropped out of the, of the new cast, and they were looking for someone very quickly to replace them because there were only four weeks before the contract expired and the work began and I was there and I was ready and I went, I went to Sydney and they offered me the job at my audition.
00;19;50;07 - 00;20;15;03
Deborah
So and then everything just changed like that. Then I had to go home, tell my parents I was leaving, pick up and and move to Sydney. So, yeah, so music theater was was something that I aspired to, but it wasn't straightforward. It was to head to work, work hard and and persist to get where I wanted to go.
00;20;15;05 - 00;20;43;20
Adam
And for the listeners and me who have no concept of being involved in a a long term production, I'd be interested in just exploring that for a little bit, if that's okay. Tell us a little bit about what is it like being involved in a big production like Phantom of the opera? It's, it's a it's a big question.
00;20;43;21 - 00;21;06;11
Deborah
Yeah. No, it's so many, lots, so many levels. Yes. Let's see if we can catch it all in one sentence. It's great. It's eight shows a week. It's working at night. It's getting to sleeping and waking. Wake up when you're ready to wake up. Not when your alarm tells you to wake up. It's telling a story.
00;21;06;13 - 00;21;35;27
Deborah
It's. It takes a lot of discipline. It takes a lot. It takes, you have. It's helpful if you really have a fresh approach to each show. So I think I think, I found a way or the the way that I like to approach it. I chose awake for the first time I did. It was four years, basically, with a few gaps in between was to, sort of, treat each show as if it was the first show treat.
00;21;35;27 - 00;22;04;20
Deborah
Each time I heard any of the dialog or sang any of the lyrics, says the first time I'd done it, keeping it fresh for myself, but also, thinking about thinking about it from an audience point of view, like they want to be told the story in a fresh way. They don't want to be looking at someone that's jaded and and has, is sick of their job and has been sort of, you know, just going through the motions for the last two years.
00;22;04;20 - 00;22;24;23
Deborah
They want to see a show that's effervescent and tells the story and has energy. There were two those two kind of things kept me going, like keeping it fresh, keeping it, keeping it real, and then thinking about the audience and and also how much they spend on their tickets and how, like, especially back in the day, they would have saved up the money.
00;22;24;25 - 00;22;41;28
Deborah
The tickets are pretty expensive. So, you know, it's not like you go and see a show every week, like you'd save up to see Phantom once or something. So, you know, you don't want to be just going through the motions for them and or for yourself or for you. You know, coworkers and cast mates and crew mates.
00;22;41;28 - 00;23;08;19
Deborah
And they were there sort of things. And, you know, it runs like there's rehearsals during the, during the week. So if you cover something in most people cover something. If you're in the ensemble, then, you know, you've got rehearsals, you've got things to look at. I was a swing. So, for those those people that don't know what a swing is, when when you've got your main characters in a show, all of those people have understudies.
00;23;08;22 - 00;23;28;13
Deborah
And if they're sick or they can't go on for some reason, the understudy will go and perform their role. So, so. But when the understudy goes to perform their role, that has to be backfilled as well. So a swing will be the person that, covers the chorus. So a lot of the, understudies come from the chorus that will cover the chorus.
00;23;28;13 - 00;23;54;27
Deborah
So when a chorus member is going on to perform one of the lead roles, they, the swing will go into the chorus members position so that you just keep everyone. Everyone stays. Everything stays the same except for a couple of cast changes. And so in Phantom, I was I was a swing and I was an off stage swing, which also meant that if I was, if no one was off or if the other swing was doing something, then I wouldn't even go on stage.
00;23;54;27 - 00;24;25;06
Deborah
I wouldn't get made up. I would be in my street clothes. I would be backstage because there was backstage singing to do so. So that kept it fresh for me as well, knowing that I wasn't always on stage, and I would if I went on, I might have gone on for six people. So one of six people. So being a swing, especially in my first professional musical, was really it really kept things alive for me.
00;24;25;08 - 00;24;54;05
Deborah
I mean, that's a real learning curve in terms of, I mean, you had no formal training performance wise. And to go into that discipline of. Learning multiple plots. What I mean by that is, and correct me if I get this wrong. Did that you basically had to learn the movements not just of one person but of a few people and have that.
00;24;54;10 - 00;25;21;08
Deborah
So you could be ready to go on and do Joe Bloggs movements for the entire show. But then the next year you might be called to do sort of someone, one of the other cast members plots and know exactly what they're doing, and they have their own sort of personal journeys and stuff like that. And even sometimes partway through a show, someone might have gastro or something, and then, you know, at interval, like you have to get on really quick and do the last half of the show.
00;25;21;11 - 00;25;39;00
Deborah
So yeah, it's it could be quite interesting. Sometimes there would be, you know, 2 or 3 people off and you might do part of somebody's plot and then another part of somebody else's plot and you'd be, you'd build your own kind of story. There were a lot of variations and there was a lot of not going on as well.
00;25;39;00 - 00;26;10;07
Deborah
So you had to be you had to be comfortable and have a low boredom threshold or say you couldn't be bored. You had to keep yourself entertained, reading books or whatever when you weren't on. And then you also had to be able to really kick into gear and, in any number of circumstances. Was there any times when you were stepping in for someone and you just went, I have no idea what they do at this point.
00;26;10;09 - 00;26;31;19
Deborah
I don't think so. We were pretty well, we did a lot of rehearsal, and I. So I had a notepad with everybody's, you know, plot like this. This person does this, this person does. So I would and sometimes I would have to take that with me to the quick change area so that if I came off, I was doing a costume change, then I could quickly go back and check my notebook.
00;26;31;19 - 00;26;53;12
Deborah
What's coming up next? You know, for this person and occasionally in on the masquerade stairs, like everyone has their own step that they start on, step that they finish on, and they have their own little journey. And sometimes that was a little bit tricky. If you hadn't had enough time to look at your notebook, or if you hadn't done that plot for a long time, you might have just had to.
00;26;53;15 - 00;27;18;12
Deborah
Before the curtain come up, just check around and say, is it this tip that I start on? Is it this step? You know. But I don't remember any times when I was completely out of my depth, you know. So when you had those rehearsals would you choose or they'd say you are going to be this person for this rehearsal and you're going to practice that, just have a run through with their plot or a bit of both.
00;27;18;15 - 00;27;37;12
Deborah
Like if they didn't have anything necessarily that they wanted me to look at in the rehearsal, then I might say, well, I haven't done this, this one for a while. Maybe I'll do that one during the rehearsal, but or otherwise, I'd say, we want you to do this today. Because, you know, so-and-so was doing this. So it was a little bit of both.
00;27;37;15 - 00;28;01;29
Deborah
And they'd just run it a normal close, like it's a run of a show and, and you just and they might stop and start. So there's various various ways, various, reasons for rehearsing. So sometimes it would be run of show if a new person was starting and they wanted to like learn, learn a role and then you'd work with them for a while until we got to a dress rehearsal.
00;28;01;29 - 00;28;23;16
Deborah
But then they would be the only people in costume and makeup and stuff, or sometimes it might be you looking at a scene, so you just, you know, generally you wearing show shoes, but you know, you're not you're not wearing necessarily any parts of the costume unless, it was for the character, like, you know, for the character that like, I covered Madame Jury as well.
00;28;23;16 - 00;28;47;18
Deborah
So, if it was, if I was doing a a tech run for Madame Curie, then I would be in full costume and makeup. Yeah, but no one else might not be. You know, and you're mentioning before you need to have sort of, a high tolerance for boredom. What did you do to pass the time to keep yourself from going crazy?
00;28;47;21 - 00;29;16;13
Deborah
I read, I like, I like to read, so I read a lot of books sometimes, you know, there'd be opportunities to sort of play card games, you know in the green room or later on I did some online study. I started to do, library technician through an online university. So I would take that as well. Like I got to the point where I thought, oh, I really need I probably need to do something a bit more than just keep reading books.
00;29;16;15 - 00;29;37;03
Deborah
So yeah, I started to do that and that that was good. I enjoyed that, but it came to a point where, I needed to do some practice and I was too busy, touring and I couldn't and I got, I sort of done all the really cool library subjects, and I was left with some stinkers, and I was like, oh, I think I've, I'm not going to get my diploma or whatever.
00;29;37;03 - 00;30;06;03
Deborah
I think, I think I've done enough study. But that also, you know, that that kind of kept me interested. And also like sometimes you might be looking at other music and learning other music for something. So, so yeah, you just keep yourself busy and entertained. So to do I mean you said for years did it get to be just become a job or what did you were you able to still find the spark for for those.
00;30;06;04 - 00;30;25;19
Deborah
No, it is a job. It is a job like eight shows a week. It's a job and you've got your rehearsals and it's a job, but it's a job I loved. And I think, I think, there are a few people that really struggle with that whole idea that this passion, this love, that they have, this real, I just adore doing music theater.
00;30;25;19 - 00;30;46;13
Deborah
I just love it. It's my. It's my passion. It's my hobby. And then you get a job in in a music theater before production. And the reality is that it's a job. Especially if it's a long term thing like that. Like, if the if you're only doing a three month season or something, you know, it's easy enough to keep that spark going.
00;30;46;16 - 00;31;13;03
Deborah
But when you sit down like it was in when fashion started, before I joined, I think it was in Melbourne for four years, and then it was another 3 or 4 years in Sydney. So I joined two and just over two years before it left Sydney, and by then, you know, and then we started touring. So that's another that's another thing like touring is, is great because obviously you still doing the same show, the same job.
00;31;13;03 - 00;31;37;10
Deborah
But if there's different elements like you're now seeing a new country or a new city or, you know, there's things to see. And so your, your off time is, is enriching. Probably one of the things that I've always been fascinated and wanting to I know it's some time in my life get it to just whether I hated it or loved it, to experience a like our long run of a show, just to experience what?
00;31;37;12 - 00;31;59;12
Deborah
What is that like to do a long run of the show. And I'm going to tell you something that you said, and you're quite welcome to deny it and say, you just made that up. Adam, I never said that. And I asked you the question, what was it like? So this, I believe it was after you had done your long run.
00;31;59;12 - 00;32;20;15
Deborah
And I think there was you about to go and go back to it. You used the, it was soul destroying. Oh did I yes, I may I caught you at a bad time. And I can remember I sort of asked press for more and you kind of said what we've just been talking about, but I might have been.
00;32;20;22 - 00;33;01;00
Deborah
It might have been the thought of going back to it. I know that there was a period with the opera and whether we sort of put that aside for later discussion, where things weren't things didn't seem to be happening sometimes it wasn't easy, of course. And picking up everything and going on tour when you were just settle back at home and you, you know, you were really because I married my husband, like, well, after, the first four years of Phantom, like, I'd come back and I was living in Adelaide and and there was no, there was some opera going on, but no touring happening.
00;33;01;03 - 00;33;34;03
Deborah
And, then in 2005, I got the opportunity to go back on tour and do it, an Asian tour of Phantom. And it was exciting again, because it was, you know, I'd never been over there. And my husband came with me and for some of it and blah, blah, blah, and I think down the track, then I'd got back home again and was settling back in and building, building, you know, a life and and then it came up again and I was like, he kind of get this thing where you love, you love the work and you love the travel.
00;33;34;03 - 00;33;54;08
Deborah
But also I'm a real homebody, so I love being at home. And I felt like at some point, you know, because it takes a while to adjust when you're away and then to adjust with your partner when you come back again as well. And just to sort of get get the household moving in the same, you know, in a, you know, an easygoing way.
00;33;54;10 - 00;34;33;29
Deborah
And maybe I'd just settle back into that kind of, oh, it's really good at home again, you know, everything's working. And then to sort of like then go, okay, now I'm going to stretch it again and go back overseas. And the I mean, the job, I mean the performing, performing is wonderful. There are elements of touring that, hard, especially for an introvert and, shy person because, you with you're surrounded by your colleagues, not 24 seven because you've got your own rooms, but you're you're touring together, you're on the bus together, you're working together, you're rehearsing together often.
00;34;33;29 - 00;34;59;25
Deborah
You're going out together on your days off to sightsee. And and for me, I'm a person that my energy as an introvert, my energy is restored when I'm just by myself. And, so that was, was and is the biggest issue for me when I'm on tour is is looking after my, my energy and my mental health.
00;35;00;04 - 00;35;21;28
Deborah
You know, like, what I need when I'm on tour is not to be surrounded by noisy people all the time, even though I love them. My my needs, that I need to shut myself off, go to my room, read a book, do something. And then the next day, I'll go back and I'll be ready to embrace the often extroverted, environment that I work in.
00;35;22;01 - 00;35;47;03
Deborah
So that is draining. That's draining for me. And I think the longer that I've done that, for the less times I'll actually go out and do, them and be part of the Halloween special or, you know, a much more likely just to go home even opening night, it's kind of like, oh, just go home because, yeah, I, I've done enough opening nights, I think.
00;35;47;03 - 00;36;20;25
Deborah
And, so yeah, that that was wasn't is the challenge for me when I'm on tour and managing the various personalities in the cast, which would change, obviously, with the different people coming in and you might develop some good friendships, but with the weather sort of times when it was really challenging, with casts and we don't have we're not mentioned names and all that, but yes.
00;36;20;25 - 00;36;53;02
Deborah
Yeah. I mean, personalities clash and, you know, I think, one of the things I observed and it didn't necessarily happen with me because, I was covering Madame Giri, who is a is a minor principle. But I found that amongst the cast there would be quite, a lot of friction between the covers of the larger roles, like the Carlotta covers, for example.
00;36;53;04 - 00;37;18;18
Deborah
But I think earlier on I was probably trying to be things that I, I wasn't like just trying to be popular and trying to go to everything and be a part of the social fabric of, of the job and, and, I had to take it took me a while because I'm a slow learner. It took me a while to realize that that wasn't wasn't beneficial to my mental health, and I needed to do what was right for me.
00;37;18;20 - 00;37;41;22
Deborah
And sometimes that's just to be in my room reading a book. What was the, result of you trying to be popular and all that? Was it just very draining or it was draining and and, and I don't think it achieved its purpose anyway. I think, I think I was people still saw me as, the shy, quiet girl.
00;37;41;22 - 00;38;04;01
Deborah
Anyway, so it wasn't like I even if I decided to be try and be a bit more flamboyant, you know, I think people still had the picture of me that was probably more accurate than my picture of me and, and people, you know, people liked me, but they just knew I wasn't a, you know, I wasn't a social extrovert.
00;38;04;03 - 00;38;16;11
Adam
And, Yeah. What's your life like outside of performing? Is there a life outside of performing, or is there absolutely. Is.
00;38;16;13 - 00;38;40;06
Deborah
I now I have a, like a part time office job. I, I was on I was a freelance performer for 15 years according to my tax returns and and I was and this year I'm think will be the first year that I have to put admin assistant as my job. Which was quite, quite a thing for me as well.
00;38;40;06 - 00;39;09;09
Deborah
Like my, a lot of my identity as a, as a performer and an employee or whatever is, is to be a professional performer. So I've had to sort of embrace the transition from, from touring and doing that. Like I finished the tour in at the end of 2020, and I'm not ready to go back and do any more touring, you know, at this point in time.
00;39;09;09 - 00;39;33;08
Deborah
So the reality was then I live in Adelaide and, and, and there's no eight shows a week going on in Adelaide. So, my life now outside of theater is, being at home. We go and see a lot of, a lot of bands this year, actually. I've never been a person that saw a lot of bands.
00;39;33;08 - 00;39;51;15
Deborah
So I guess working eight shows a week as well. You're always working on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Oh, not always Sunday, but nowadays it's Sunday. So you didn't get to see a lot of other shows and you didn't get to see bands and you didn't get to sort of, I guess bands go and later. But I was ready for bed by then.
00;39;51;18 - 00;40;18;08
Deborah
So I'm doing a sing a lot of music, catching up with friends. I've written my own cabaret show. I've written, written two, and I've got ideas for another couple from show show called the most recent one. Glamor and Song, the songs of Pat Carroll and Olivia Newton-John. And I performed that song about 15 performances, so not a great deal.
00;40;18;08 - 00;40;48;29
Deborah
But, yeah, it'll pop up every now and then when I think it needs another little go. And I'd love to get, my, one of my ambitions for the show is to do some regional touring with it. Do you find it as rewarding into creating your own work as opposed to doing something that's already written? I do find it very rewarding, probably more rewarding, but I think I also like, I like to have someone pay me to do something, so.
00;40;49;01 - 00;41;12;09
Deborah
So, I mean, I find that rewarding. I think a lot of the time when you can't rely on the phone ringing and someone just saying, hey, Deb, would you like to come and do this? Then you've got to if you want to keep performing and doing things, you have to create your own things or really, make your own opportunities.
00;41;12;09 - 00;41;37;15
Deborah
So, I thought this was kind of an easier way than sort of like try and get the rights for a show and put it on an employee or these people, like, I thought, if I can just write my own thing and be the boss of it and be the person that can promote it and put it places, and yeah, then I then I thought that that might be a way to go.
00;41;37;16 - 00;42;04;14
Deborah
And it has been really rewarding. And you've been working with the the Olivia. Well, it was originally Olivia Newton-John for quite a while now, 11 years. It took me 11 years from the time, when when it was when Olivia Newton-John came out to the cabaret festival. I can't remember the year 92,000 and. 11. Something like that.
00;42;04;17 - 00;42;33;21
Deborah
So yeah, it was fact check. That is a challenge, I think. It. Yeah. So can me details I think I think it was 2011. So at the same time, the cabaret fringe was operating as well. And Paul Baldwin Boylan used to run the what was the name of it? Sorry. Forgotten how quick la bomb. And he decided that it would be as an adjunct adjunct to the fringe that they would put on these performances, which he called cabaret.
00;42;33;24 - 00;43;02;11
Deborah
So he invited like four people each to put in 20, 20 minutes worth. And you make up a whole, a whole show with four people's, mini cabarets. And he had heard through his wife Catherine, who, is in the opera company that, when I've perhaps imbibed a couple too many champagnes that I was want to do, quite, quite a good Olivia Newton-John impression was very good.
00;43;02;15 - 00;43;22;27
Deborah
Yeah. So anyway, so he contacted me and said, oh, I've heard you, you know, you can sing Olivia Newton-John music. And this was the year she was coming to the cabaret festival. Well, how about, you know, you create a ten, 15 minute little cabaret, it will pop you into the cabaret fringe. And so I thought, what a great idea.
00;43;23;00 - 00;43;44;29
Deborah
And so I did my four songs with a little bit of patter, and that's where it started. So, and for a long time I was going down one, one pathway with it, and then that wasn't getting anywhere. I was only getting maybe 25 minutes worth of story in song. And then I let it go for a few years.
00;43;45;02 - 00;44;07;24
Deborah
And when I came back to it, I had a whole different idea. Some other idea came to me and I was like, okay, let's go down that pathway. And that's that's where I ended up. And that just almost didn't write itself. But it really this the whole show really gelled for me then. And I could work out what the story was about.
00;44;07;27 - 00;44;36;05
Deborah
I mean, it is a do you want to explain what this the journey or who who who's. Yeah. Well, my little nutshell is it's the it's the story of Pat Carroll told through the music that her husband, John Ferrer, wrote and produced for her best friend, Olivia Newton-John. So, Pat Carroll Story and it's a story is a story of Sliding Doors.
00;44;36;05 - 00;45;02;28
Deborah
It's a story. A story of what ifs. It's a story of great friendship, lifelong friendship. Oh. Sung to the music of Olivia Newton-John and the music that I specifically chose to tell the story is the music that John Farrow, who is Pat Carroll's husband and Olivia Newton-John friend. It's his music. It's the music he either wrote or produced for Olivia, with only 1 or 2 exceptions.
00;45;02;28 - 00;45;30;19
Deborah
So it's all about that triangle between the three of them, and it shines a light on Pat Carroll, who, you know, most people go, he's that and and in her day, like back in the day when her and Olivia were teenaged singing superstars in Australia and then went to England, she had spunk. She had spark. She was the, you know, she heard Olivia sang a duo, Pat and Olivia in England and she was the the leader and she was the confident one.
00;45;30;19 - 00;45;58;06
Deborah
And and if you looked at that, you would think Pat would have been the star. But, yeah, it's so this is a story of a woman whose life played out differently than you'd expect. But, yeah, it's quite a rewarding journey to go on. No, it's very, very clever idea. What keeps you going? What keeps me going is.
00;45;58;08 - 00;46;20;23
Deborah
And I would have quit years and years and years ago if I didn't have. This is an innate joy that I get when I'm actually singing, like, And more so now, now that I'm actually relating to people, like when I, when I started singing, it was just the love of singing, and I would not even look at the people in the audience.
00;46;20;23 - 00;47;08;16
Deborah
I would just be singing as a little entity by myself. But now it's about singing, and whether it's the physicality of singing and the vibrations or something, it gives me joy. And but then the storytelling that goes with that and, and, and the communication with the audience and seeing people in the audience enjoying the music, and feeling that you have a little bit to do with making someone's life a little bit better for a moment in time, I sang last night at some carols and and it was just like the same old feelings, you know, like I'm just singing and adoring singing and and looking at people and going.
00;47;08;18 - 00;47;30;02
Deborah
They were enjoying the moment. They were enjoying the, the service. And yeah, I think without that and I remember when I was, when I was younger and I was like so hard I wasn't getting anywhere. I wasn't achieving achieving anything, getting knocked back as as you do a lot when you're trying to make a career out of singing.
00;47;30;09 - 00;47;53;08
Deborah
And I thought, oh, if only I didn't love singing, I'd give it up, you know? But it just had this hold on me, just this real joy of singing that, I've never been able to shake and I've I appreciate it, I love it, I'm glad I've got it, but that's that's the only thing that's sustain me. That's the thing that sustain me throughout this 40 something years.
00;47;53;10 - 00;48;23;18
Adam and Deborah
Thank you for your honesty. Oh you're welcome. What keeps you positive? How do you look after yourself and keep yourself positive? I had a well, I think a lot of people kind of have this breakthrough at some point in their lives with singing especially. I would just refer back to that start with, knowing knowing that, like you, there are a lot of times when you could be quite negative.
00;48;23;18 - 00;48;50;01
Deborah
And I certainly, as you pointed out at, I have very negative, that one moment in time. One moment. No, no, no, I've also had some. Yeah. No, I've also had some. So, you know, when you don't get it, when you don't get work and you or you get knocked back for something and you feel like I was perfect for that, how could I, you know, so that there's certainly times when you get a bit low, but then it's, I think sometimes the decision is out of your hands.
00;48;50;01 - 00;49;12;16
Deborah
And when you go into an audition round, the the decisions out of your hands, you go in and you can do the best you can do and just go in there being prepared and do the best you can do. And you know, you could walk in the door and they already know that they want a blond person and you're not blond, or they want to someone that's taller than you or and they've got their mind made up and, and you can still do the best job that you can.
00;49;12;16 - 00;49;44;14
Deborah
And occasionally their minds will change, but normally they won't. So, that's that's all kind of out of your control. So you can't be going. Oh, I was so bad at. No, I didn't like me. Oh, I'm useless as a person because it's, you know, those kind of things you can't do anything about. And you just have to, like, maybe grieve for that thing that you thought you're going to get for one moment and then just get on and realize that, you know, that doesn't mean anything about who you are as a person.
00;49;44;17 - 00;50;10;28
Deborah
So positivity as far as, work, I mean, that that was a big thing that really helped me just sort of deal with negativity, was just to go, well, that's okay. I've, you know, it's not my time. It's not my turn. So just on that, like, like there was an opportunity I had to get into a musical, professional musical.
00;50;10;28 - 00;50;32;02
Deborah
I went into state to do my audition, and I thought about being with a big chance because, I had done, like the Adelaide season of that musical the last time it had been done, I thought, yes, you know, the same people were still working on it. So, I mean, they they knew who I was. I'd already done it as a professional performer.
00;50;32;02 - 00;50;52;01
Deborah
So obviously I was in the ballpark and I, I got I got a callback, but then that was it. I got nothing else after that. And I was devastated. I just thought, how can they like, I couldn't not even get to the next round or the round after that, I what I've done the show. And so I just thought, oh, okay.
00;50;52;01 - 00;51;14;02
Deborah
And then I kind of went, okay. And I left it, a bit disappointed for a little while. And then I was like, well, but, you know, nothing I can do, nothing I can do. And then later that same year, the auditions came out for My Fair Lady, and, and I auditioned for that, and I got into that.
00;51;14;02 - 00;51;42;03
Deborah
But the thing is that I couldn't have gotten into that or auditioned for that if I had got that first job because the the seasons clashed. So the the hindsight and the and the beauty of just letting is letting, the universe take its own time with you is that then I was given that opportunity, and I was free and able to take it and, it I loved it.
00;51;42;07 - 00;52;07;16
Deborah
I much prefer to do that show then probably did the first show, but and listeners, she may not be aware that the director of that particular production that I was involved with was none other than Dame Julie Andrews. The person who played it originally in London and Broadway, I think. Yeah. Before she got ousted by Audrey. Yes. So, yeah.
00;52;07;16 - 00;52;23;13
Deborah
So that was, you know, not on my bucket list to work with her, but there it was. If I'd known, I would have put it at the top of my bucket list. But it's funny. But it might tie in. Let's see how clever we are. We've met. But you're talking about you got in. You don't know how.
00;52;23;13 - 00;52;53;26
Deborah
Why they didn't choose you again. But, I mean, I've just been doing some reading and finding out Julie Andrews was. I was, as we said, the original Eliza Doolittle. And then when I went to the movie, they at that stage, she wasn't really known by the broader community. So they wanted a name, Audrey Hepburn had just recently done, a big film and was sort of the yin, and she got it as similar to your story.
00;52;53;26 - 00;53;23;05
Deborah
But then shortly after she, Julie Andrews got the Mary Poppins, which and she got the the Academy Award for it. Ironically, I just found out recently that when they were doing Sound of Music, again, Julie Andrews played the role. And in the film, she didn't do it. She wasn't the original person in the musical. Mary Martin, I believe, was, it was pretty big in her time.
00;53;23;07 - 00;53;52;06
Deborah
But similar thing. But she was a bit more establish. Julie. But I didn't realize that. Again, Audrey Hepburn was the first choice for Sound of Music. No, that would have been completely. And I thought, wow, that was my that was my little sip of sake. Well, I've got a segue to isn't, you know, the woman, Marni Nixon, she used to, record a lot of the voices for the, for the, I think maybe even Audrey Hepburn.
00;53;52;10 - 00;54;09;19
Deborah
No name, but money. Yeah. Sort of a fairly famous. She's very famous. Well, you know what? Yeah, exactly. She was in that. She was in the on the books. That's right. Well, she is in The Sound of Music is one of the nuns, I believe. I believe, oh, not not, not a blind one, I don't think. No, I don't think so.
00;54;09;22 - 00;54;29;08
Deborah
No, I think she was. Yeah. I don't think she was. Oh, she could have been. We have to get someone. Get someone to ring in or what? Right in. And I wouldn't answer that question. Yeah it's not. But then. But she still didn't get, like, a main role. No. I and she sang for Saint for everybody. Famous people.
00;54;29;08 - 00;55;00;27
Deborah
Yeah. I used to not know what we're looking for. How how awful for her. But I'm sure she made a lot of money along the way. And that's the thing I like. And that's the thing like that might not have been her goal. Like. Like, you know, her goal might not have been to be the lead performer. Her goal might have been to be the recording voice or to, you know, to enable other people to, she would have been held in quite high regard by the, the people that were making the movies and stuff because, because she was doing a great service for them.
00;55;00;27 - 00;55;28;07
Adam
But there's a really interesting doco. I don't know if it's still on Netflix called 20ft from stardom. And listeners, if you're not, basically, it's a doctor about backing singers for famous, pop singers. And, and I follow, a few of them interviewing some who and like, Bruce Springsteen was is one that springs to mind just for his backing singers.
00;55;28;09 - 00;55;58;23
UAdam
And incidentally, one of them originally from Adelaide. But, I mean, they all have amazing voices, and one of them did try to to go for it. She, she has a record and try to sort of push her as a solo artist, but it just didn't happen. And I mean, everyone holds her with the highest like, and she still sings like an out of this world voice.
00;55;58;26 - 00;56;24;27
Adam
And I think he, she was one of the bosses backing singers, and he would especially give her a spot during his concerts where she would just go off. And it was just sort raise the roof type stuff. But it makes you realize, yeah, there's more to making it then, talent is important, very important. But there's other elements.
00;56;25;00 - 00;56;42;04
Adam
And hearing the recordings and kind. Yeah. I mean, and why didn't she make it compared to other other art? It depends on your goals as well. Like maybe maybe, you know, being a backing singer, backing vocalist is what you want to do. Like, you know, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a backing vocalist, you know, like.
00;56;42;10 - 00;57;02;06
Adam
And maybe that's where you get your greatest joy from being a supporter, from being, you know, for being in the ensemble in a musical or, you know, like you're still part of, you know, important part of the whole piece, the whole story. But you, you know, I, I suppose, you know, it's the general populace aren't tuned into it.
00;57;02;08 - 00;57;20;17
Adam
You know, they're aware of it. They can hear, but they're not sort of really focusing in on that element and going, wow, that, you know, that's they're really skilled artists and what they're doing, they're not just sort of any old person who's just sort of swinging side to side and going do up to up. Yeah, they've got really good voice in there and.
00;57;20;17 - 00;57;55;00
Unknown
Right. And it was I suppose it's sort of the documentary was really good books that kind of shone a light on the talents of these people. But also that, it's, it's more than just raw talent that will get you the big star billing name. It's a funny industry that we like to dabble in where hard work and perseverance are definitely not guarantees of you actually reaching the goal.
00;57;55;03 - 00;58;25;28
Adam
Whereas in other fields, if you put in the hard work, you're, you know, reliable, consistent, you know, all of those qualities that people value and still at the end of all that it might, we'll pick that person instead. Why? I don't know, I like the look of them or I, I just know them better. All very good mate of mine or or they've got more, followers on their, social media account.
00;58;26;01 - 00;58;48;21
Deborah
Any numerous reasons why they chose the other person other than you? But it's got and as you say, it's got nothing to do with you. And it's them. It's their decision, their choice and and you, they. Yeah, for their reasons. But it's not a reflection of you. But we we take it personally. Yeah. So I could have been, you know, had a thing that for a little while and then you have to let it go.
00;58;48;25 - 00;59;08;28
Deborah
You have to just go. It's not helpful to me to hold on to that feeling of being not good enough. When that person's made their choice and they've they've run with it and they're not even thinking about, you know, you can't carry that. And it's and it's for letting go and moving on. There can be that's the challenge.
00;59;09;00 - 00;59;39;14
Deborah
And so some people have the the skill of learning themselves, the techniques of being able to sort of go, All right. I'm going to just acknowledge it. Yeah. Knowledge of emotions done right. Give a little kiss and goodbye. Move on. Some people. And, visual image of Adams sort of tentatively putting his hand up. Yeah. Needs needs to work through that also because it's not healthy.
00;59;39;16 - 01;00;03;12
Adam
Yeah, it doesn't and it doesn't and it doesn't get you anywhere. It's not it's counterproductive. And all of those things logically, you can go, yes, I understand these things, but yet there's still that kind of. Because the thing that might have, might be upsetting you or going around and upsetting you might, might have been resolved six months ago for the other person and that, you know, they've, they've gone on that cost somebody else or whatever.
01;00;03;14 - 01;00;25;26
Deborah
And honestly that they're not, you know, they're not thinking anything about where you are, what you're at and how you're dealing with this decision made six months ago. So, you know, to be kind to yourself and just go, wow, you know, that was a shame. I'm sad about that. But, you know, that's not the that's not how I define myself.
01;00;25;28 - 01;00;50;15
Deborah
You know, all these other things. How have I changed based on that decision? How from being upset, disappointed and upset am I a different person? You know, as my voice changed? Yeah. Train those decisions. We all just got to move on. We've you take you take some of that we need like, you know, like anything you learn from it, you can take with you.
01;00;50;20 - 01;01;10;23
Deborah
But, anything that's kind of negative is probably best to leave it back there and just go, well, you know, I'm okay. Are you okay? I'm okay. You're okay? Yes. I'm positive. I don't know a positive. Back to that. We segue back to I was trying to keep on saying, all right, well, it wasn't it was a clunky segway.
01;01;10;26 - 01;01;26;05
Adam
Yeah. I'm good. If. Goody. It five. Question number one.
01;01;26;07 - 01;01;53;25
Adam and Deborah
What is one item on your bucket list? It is still a, performance based, Item, but I've never had a role in a professional production, so I it doesn't need to be a big role, but I would like to have a small role, like be cast in a role rather than in the ensemble, just just to see what that's like.
01;01;53;25 - 01;02;19;08
Deborah
You know, it could be, you know, something like Mrs. Hopkins in My Fair Lady, you know, you get you get, you know, five lines or something. Just something that musical. Yeah. Probably from a musical or a play. Yeah. She did sort of have a. Oh, that's true. I forgot about her. And also. Yeah. Oh, that was, that was a that was a real speech.
01;02;19;09 - 01;02;37;20
Unknown
I didn't think about that. You're right. I mean yeah. Yeah. You're right. Significant something significant in I'm probably probably thinking in a long running musical like an eight shows a week. Yes kind of thing as opposed to four performances. And you done. That's fair. So I guess I guess that would be something I'd still have on my back at this.
01;02;37;23 - 01;03;02;18
Deborah
Oh, that's. From who? From your past that you've fallen out of touch with. What would you most like to reconnect with? I think I would, I would love actually. I would love to see, some of those couple of those girls from that the, the set, the two I did where they were on to a Pauline. And I'd love to see them again.
01;03;02;20 - 01;03;31;01
Deborah
Since you're listening, the Honley I mean I think I would be, yeah. Come on, get in touch. Reach out as another excuse. Yeah. Contact. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I mean it's one of the unique things in with your, with a career you've had that you do connect with people from all over the world. And then you, then you just sort of go back off, disperse so that that would be like hard to sort of maintain it.
01;03;31;01 - 01;03;54;15
Deborah
I mean, social media has sort of served a purpose and to, to maintain it. But but it is hard, when you do, create those bonds and shows, particularly for such a period of time, it would be challenging to sort of you go to your own lives to. Yeah, it's hard enough being in the same country, let alone another part of the world.
01;03;54;17 - 01;04;27;18
Deborah
So don't you miss them there. So, you know, we had we had some good times. Now that's good. That's good. What personal quality do you most want to improve. I'm going to say courage instead of quality. Yes it is. Yes I think courage I think I do the noise. Yeah. The noise I need on the move I think I, I have lots of times when I've wanted to try something different or just to see what that how that sat and how it felt and lacked the courage to do it.
01;04;27;18 - 01;04;48;25
Deborah
Like even now, I and I know that my courage has grown, over the years as, as you know, thinking about that young girl biting her lip. But I still think that I need to flex that muscle and exercise that muscle, and to do a few more things that challenge me and and make me so that I just.
01;04;48;25 - 01;05;07;05
Deborah
I want to feel brave. I want to feel, you know, I just I'd like to. Yeah. That and it's interesting that you sort of describe it like a muscle because if you don't use it, it will degenerate. So it is something that you have to keep flexing and using, using it. Otherwise you don't use it. You lose it.
01;05;07;05 - 01;05;36;11
Deborah
Tight type saying not that's good. Mine would be, which I sort of mentioned before. I'd like to dwell less. Some things sometimes. Sometimes it can be helpful in terms of, you know, you can think things through and you like to. But I do also sit on negativity and go into that spiral. So that's something I know I'd like to what muscles that that you have to flex.
01;05;36;13 - 01;05;58;29
Deborah
Well, it's very strong. It's a very strong muscle because I could probably use it quite a lot. I think I'm aware of it. And so it's sort of probably not as bad, but it is one that well awareness is potent. Yeah. But it is kind of, trying to circumnavigate that path because it'll just will automatically go into that path.
01;05;59;02 - 01;06;30;10
Deborah
Question number four. What brings you the most joy? Oh, okay. Well, we've touched on this earlier. Singing the art of singing the the experience of singing. That brings me great joy. I would add in there. I love my home. I love that gives me joy. I love my cats. She is joyous. Except when she's kind of, like, chomping in my ear at 630 to be fed.
01;06;30;13 - 01;07;23;02
Deborah
Yeah, my home life, my singing, my cat. Yeah, my family, my friends. Lots of things bring me joy. But singing is probably the thing. That's question. What part of your identity do you believe will never change? I think, I, are responsible person like I think. And this, this may be why I need some more courage, but I've always found it difficult to sort of break away from being, having all my ducks in a row and being being doing the right thing, you know, and I haven't been able to sort of like, get out there and, you know, throw caution to the wind.
01;07;23;04 - 01;07;47;18
Deborah
Because it's really not in my nature. Oh, well, you know, I flex it a little bit, but to actually really do something radical and different, I always get drawn back into being responsible and being good and being common sense, a common sense kind of person. So I think that even if I try to challenge that, I still think I'll probably revert back to it.
01;07;47;18 - 01;08;08;29
Deborah
It's something that's quite intrinsic to who I am. And like the oldest child in the family, my parents were quite young when they had us, and the oldest grandchild in the family, so a lot of that was just, you know, being being a role model, being a good person, being, you know, firstborn syndrome. Yeah. Firstborn syndrome, I guess.
01;08;08;29 - 01;08;33;17
Unknown
Yeah. So I think I think that is the answer. Deborah Caddy Thank you. It has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for sharing your life, your thoughts, your feelings with us. It has been my pleasure.
01;08;33;19 - 01;08;41;10
Adam
And there you have it. How?
01;08;41;13 - 01;09;04;13
Julie
That's no reflection on you, Deb. I thought that was really, really insightful and interesting. I it's sort of nice to hear how people manage the ups and downs of theater life, particularly, as you said in the beginning of what it's like working on something day after day. I certainly can relate to the introversion side of things that she was talking about.
01;09;04;15 - 01;09;30;18
Adam
Yes. It's, interesting. I mean, I, I can relate to it. And I think a lot of performance, can be that they are actually introverted, which sounds like a contradiction, but, that it's like another side to them. But in actual social settings, they are actually quite introverted, but in a performance setting there, or you can kind of play a role.
01;09;30;20 - 01;09;52;08
Adam
Yeah. It's just it gets you in socially. It's an opportunity to not be yourself. But that's how it feels to me anyway. Which yeah, which is good. But, yeah. So this is, an interesting element. And it was, I have to say, a rather challenging recording session in terms of doing it outdoors. Not something I'd probably rush and do it again.
01;09;52;10 - 01;10;09;18
Adam
But, yes, I think there was a few moments that you would have heard fit for a band. So quite conveniently going on on the background, I tried to get rid of that as much as possible. Yeah, no, I too well, which didn't bother me when I heard it, but yeah. No. Yeah, that was a great interview.
01;10;09;20 - 01;10;36;24
Adam
And it was just. Yeah. Not getting it out of perspective and how she's dealt with the ups and downs and her journey. So yeah, I'm sure a lot of people get a lot out of that feeling. So thank you again for listening to this episode. And if you have any, queries or, you'd like to be involved in some way, with, becoming being an interviewee is at the word.
01;10;36;26 - 01;11;03;14
Adam and Julie
What was the interviewee? Interviewee. Yeah. Why not a subject? By all means, email me singular productions at Big pond.com. Cool. See you next time. Bye. I.